everything exists

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Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2008 12:21 am


How does one think of something that doesn't exist? If we think of anything that doesn't exist how do we even think about it? Is anything truly real or are we all just creating worlds in our minds? And, if that were true, this that you are reading now is this that your mind created.
 
Vasska
 
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2008 04:34 am
@autumnramc,
autumnramc wrote:


How does one think of something that doesn't exist? If we think of anything that doesn't exist how do we even think about it? Is anything truly real or are we all just creating worlds in our minds? And, if that were true, this that you are reading now is this that your mind created.


There is a subtle difference between something you think of (thus making it real in your imagination) and something you can touch and feel (thus making it real on our human perspective).

We humans tend to go for the latter one, and only think of the first one in dreams or creative sessions.

But yes, everything exists in our minds with the possibility to make it real to our perspectives of touching and feeling.
 
jgweed
 
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2008 07:03 am
@autumnramc,
There are many ways in which humans can "think" of something that does not exist (or "have real/actual/physical" being):
1. We can "think" of non-being (as a concept).
2. We can "think" of unicorns (whose existence is imaginary)
3. We can "think" of something or someone absent (a lost toy represented in a empty space on the toyshelf).
But these are examples of different kinds of "knowing" not the same kind as knowing the keyboard exists even though we are tempted to use the same word to describe them.

The most obvious argument that everything is not just something I conceive of in my mind is that the incredible depth and variety of our knowledge of the external world. Why, for example, would one imagine such a thing as the periodic table of elements, or wheelchairs, or the Defenestration of Prague?
 
Welshie
 
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 11:19 am
@autumnramc,
I personally think Everything Exists, because everything exists as a concept at least. If it didn't exist we would never have thought of it.
The concept of 'non-being' is a contradiction of terms. Everything is Being... even 'nothing' is Being. The concept of 'non-being' is in fact part of Being anyway.
Ignoring the huge assumption that Unicorns don't actually exist literally, they still exist in the imagination - that's still a form of existence.
If we are thinking of a person, they exist. But if we are thinking of the void where that person isn't, that void exists.
Everything exists as a concept. Existence is the essence of anything.

That's my view anyway..
 
autumnramc
 
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 01:41 pm
@Welshie,
exactly:) thank you for adding
 
alex717
 
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 09:57 pm
@autumnramc,
For one to make an imagination real, he must, within the use of human perception, create the same thought in ones head as instantly as he does his, to keep in congruent content of the creation you say to be real, however since one cannot do this, simply drawing it or imagining it yourself, does not make it real. A thought is not real, for something to be real it must be true, people think up lies all the time, all your imagination is, is a lie of the real world to entertain or abstractly view something that concerns yourself.
 
autumnramc
 
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 10:02 pm
@alex717,
how are we even completely sure that this isn't all imagination?
 
alex717
 
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 10:07 pm
@autumnramc,
Because then we would all collectively be in one conscious things imagination, that to us, would be "real". Since it would fit fine under the definition.
 
autumnramc
 
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 10:25 pm
@alex717,
Some other conscious thing's thoughts being so grand to the point of creating our entire existence would be proof for me that everything exists.
That would be like me imagining a village of big foots and them all having lives, feelings, emotions, motives etc that would feel all real to them without me ever even thinking about it.
 
alex717
 
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 10:29 pm
@autumnramc,
autumnramc wrote:
Some other conscious thing's thoughts being so grand to the point of creating our entire existence would be proof for me that everything exists.
That would be like me imagining a village of big foots and them all having lives, feelings, emotions, motives etc that would feel all real to them without me ever even thinking about it.

.
It's called 'God'...I thought you'd be able to follow that..for some reason....
 
autumnramc
 
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 10:38 pm
@alex717,
Suppose we are all 'Gods' creating other existences within our minds.
 
alex717
 
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 10:50 pm
@autumnramc,
autumnramc wrote:
Suppose we are all 'Gods' creating other existences within our minds.



We can't sustain them...And we aren't absolute, as God is, so therefore it cannot be true to anyone but ourselves, which conflicts with the same problem as before.
 
Welshie
 
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 04:18 am
@autumnramc,
Huge assumptions there.

How do you know we aren't absolute? Personally I think the human mind may be absolute and exist necessarily... everything else is within the mind. I don't really know what you mean by 'we can't sustain them'?

And something doesn't need to be true to anyone else. You don't even know anybody else exists... all you know of them is the sense data of seeing them, hearing them, etc etc... every other person could also be in your imagination making your own mind the center of everything; and everything else is just within your mind.
 
alex717
 
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 12:07 pm
@Welshie,
Welshie wrote:
Huge assumptions there.

How do you know we aren't absolute? Personally I think the human mind may be absolute and exist necessarily... everything else is within the mind. I don't really know what you mean by 'we can't sustain them'?

And something doesn't need to be true to anyone else. You don't even know anybody else exists... all you know of them is the sense data of seeing them, hearing them, etc etc... every other person could also be in your imagination making your own mind the center of everything; and everything else is just within your mind.


Ok, saying God would be absolute in a philosophical discussion :poke-eye:, huge assumption, lol. And my saying you can't sustain your imagination, means you might think of something, but it doesn't keep going, once you stop it's gone (this ties further into, your mortal, therefore could not be absolute).

And now, instead of the original argument over whether thinking something in your head is real, you want to call an audible and try to say everything could be imaginary in our lives, because we would be the center of everything. This wouldn't make it real, unless you were absolute, and if you think you are absolute then why would you be mortal?

That kind of thinking, becomes very Nihilistic, remember this isn't some pseudo forum, I know you guys just registered, there is a point when you need to stay on an argument, promote it with reason, and when it's been concluded, move on. If you change things midway, please at least show what your changing, and state it clearly.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 06:39 pm
@autumnramc,
autumnramc wrote:
Suppose we are all 'Gods' creating other existences within our minds.


Don't thngs have to exist independently of mind in order to exist? The idea of a unicorn exists in our mind. But unicorns do not exist. Do they? Ideas are in our minds, but what they are ideas of don't exist in our minds. Ideas of unicorns exist, but unicorns do not.
 
jknilinux
 
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 07:50 pm
@autumnramc,
According to Berkeley, nothing can exist independent of mind.

The real question is, if all things that exist are dependant on the mind, then do all things that are dependant on the mind exist?
 
lakeshoredrive
 
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 12:57 am
@autumnramc,
I both agree and disagree. While everything exists, it is also true that nothing exists.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 02:40 am
@lakeshoredrive,
lakeshoredrive wrote:
I both agree and disagree. While everything exists, it is also true that nothing exists.


That is a contradiction, and is, therefore, false. Of course, the answer to what exists is, everything. But more detail is needed.
 
alex717
 
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 02:43 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy wrote:
That is a contradiction, and is, therefore, false. Of course, the answer to what exists is, everything. But more detail is needed.


Haha, oooh we all know what context it is in, or so I thought...
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 02:50 am
@alex717,
alex717 wrote:
Haha, oooh we all know what context it is in, or so I thought...


I don't understand your comment.
 
 

 
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