I like this, butt Level 1 and 2 are somewhat the same question and the 3rd an assumption of something observing this? No, I don`t think it`s the holy trinity! Meta-humans I`d like to hear more about!

The third level "the abstraction" is beyond the self, it is losing the self in the pattern, it is the de-identification of self as applied to theory. Many meditative traditions have striven for the status of "meta-human" for millenniums.

The difference I was trying to get at between level 1 and 2 is that level 1 is the "I" that acts and level 2 is the the "I" that is aware of those acts while they are being performed. level one is insect, while level 2 is self-aware human.

the 3rd level is state where you can be aware of yourself being aware. you can see yourself and your role in the world. You see how arbitrary your actions are in relation to the vast possibilities of the universe. It is just a kind of existencial awareness that most people have on occasion.

I'm wondering if the 3rd level is what we are evolving towards. Animals on level one and sometimes 2, humans on level 2 and sometimes 3, metahumans on level 3 and sometimes 4, etc.:eek:

do you think there are levels beyond zen enlightenment, or is that the ultimate level?

once there, would you still go to a hotdog stand and ask him to make you one with everything?

Not sure, i have yet to achieve any sort of enlightenment