Human Cloning?

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Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2010 08:04 am
Do you guys agree with it? Why or why not?

What is the advantages and disadvantages of human cloning?

Do you think this is a good substitute for Sex?
 
etherguant
 
Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2010 02:56 pm
@Wisdom Seeker,
Wisdom Seeker;153961 wrote:
Do you guys agree with it? Why or why not?Do you guys agree with it? Why or why not?


Well this is something that does occur naturally (twins). If you are talking about for the purposes of organ harvesting it would probably be more ethical to simply engineer a pig with human organs. I would probably oppose the creation of any clone army or slave race.

Wisdom Seeker;153961 wrote:
What is the advantages and disadvantages of human cloning?


It is unnecessary. humans are slowly devolving as the weak are no longer culled but the way to fix that is engineering not cloning. If you were to say to create a super human it would be better to create more like her by improving more babies not by cloning her.

Wisdom Seeker;153961 wrote:
Do you think this is a good substitute for Sex?


Why not combine the two? Emma Watson orgy anyone?
 
Mentally Ill
 
Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2010 06:17 pm
@Wisdom Seeker,
Wisdom Seeker;153961 wrote:
Do you guys agree with it? Why or why not?

What is the advantages and disadvantages of human cloning?

Do you think this is a good substitute for Sex?



I have no ethical qualms with cloning. I think it would provide some new insights into the development of personality and identity as we would be able to compare and contrast two humans with identical brains and bodies.
Obvious advantages are in the medical field, as we could effectively produce any necessary organ, bone marrow, body part etc. that a person may be in need of.
If a person got lung cancer, instead of fighting the cancer, simply replace the lung.
Genetic engineering comes in along these same lines, and I have no problem with that either. If I could ensure that my child will have no mental diseases and no bodily defects like two hands on one wrist, for example, I would seize that opportunity gladly. I don't think there is anything wrong with tampering with the human genome.

It would not be a suitable replacement for sex though, as a clone is not a child. A child is the offspring of two parents, a combination of their DNA. A clone is just a copy of one person's DNA, meaning that a clone is not the offspring of an individual but a replication.
I agree with Wisdom Seeker in that Genetic Engineering is a better technique when it comes to producing children.
Cloning still has its practical applications though.
 
Wozz
 
Reply Sun 23 May, 2010 11:11 pm
@Wisdom Seeker,
I don't find anything wrong with cloning. Only concern I would have is when would cloning end? Say you could clone a human 100% guarantee it was going to live and be an exact copy. What happens if there are 5 of Emma Watson and one commits a crime? Do all 5 get arrested? How would you know who is who? I think cloning would be interesting and would be a breakthrough for us. But I don't think humans today can be responsible for it. Too much corruption, greed, self-interest etc etc...that's just my take on the topic.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Sun 23 May, 2010 11:20 pm
@Wozz,
Wozz;167964 wrote:
I don't find anything wrong with cloning. Only concern I would have is when would cloning end? Say you could clone a human 100% guarantee it was going to live and be an exact copy. What happens if there are 5 of Emma Watson and one commits a crime? Do all 5 get arrested?


Why do you ask silly questions like this? First of all, if you clone someone, the clone would not be 100% the same as the original. Personality, memories, and behavior would not be identical. Secondly, the clone would be treated like a sibling, twin. If you have an identical twin, who commits a crime, do you get locked up with your identical twin? No, the twin gets held accountable. It would be absurd to lock up both people for the crime of one person. That is unless the other twin was some how involved in the crime.
 
Wozz
 
Reply Sun 23 May, 2010 11:25 pm
@Wisdom Seeker,
But the appearance of the two would be the same, how could you conclude who committed the crime? Sorry you find my questions silly but they are a reasonable factor to the topic of cloning.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Mon 24 May, 2010 02:46 am
@Wozz,
Wozz;167968 wrote:
But the appearance of the two would be the same, how could you conclude who committed the crime? Sorry you find my questions silly but they are a reasonable factor to the topic of cloning.


Well only in the sense of trying to visually identify the person. But very few cases are based of just an eye witness account to solve a crime. There would have to be more evidence than this to convict either one of the crime. More than likely the case would not convict both or all the clones, but instead it would probably end with a hung jury since they could not completely identify the person.

But to filly you in a little more. Even identical twins are not completely identical. Even their finger prints are slightly different. So if you had more evidence to go on, you could determine which "clone" or "twin" committed the crime and which was innocent. After all you have one clue. If only one person was seen committing the crime or there is some known information that there is only a single perpetrator. Then you can have a basis to start on. There has to be one guilty and one not. So convicting them both would be unjust.
 
Mentally Ill
 
Reply Mon 24 May, 2010 04:02 am
@Wozz,
Wozz;167964 wrote:
I don't find anything wrong with cloning. Only concern I would have is when would cloning end? Say you could clone a human 100% guarantee it was going to live and be an exact copy. What happens if there are 5 of Emma Watson and one commits a crime? Do all 5 get arrested? How would you know who is who? I think cloning would be interesting and would be a breakthrough for us. But I don't think humans today can be responsible for it. Too much corruption, greed, self-interest etc etc...that's just my take on the topic.


It would be really easy to mark clones with a tattoo of some sort.
Think about identical twins - just give the clone a new name and it won't be a problem. As in the case of identical twins, appearing to be the same person doesn't mean that people will assume you are the same person.
Also, cloning, as it works right now, is a process that develops a cell into an embryo, not a fully adult person. So, if someone did (for some weird reason) clone himself, the clone would be a baby and there would be at least 20 or so years difference between their ages.
Cloning, as a technological tool, is more about recreating human organs and vital human parts for transplantation to save human lives, not to replicate human beings just for fun.
If cloning does become common-place though, you can expect that the government will have a way to deal with potential instances of clones playing the blame game.

---------- Post added 05-24-2010 at 03:08 AM ----------

Krumple;167966 wrote:
Why do you ask silly questions like this? First of all, if you clone someone, the clone would not be 100% the same as the original. Personality, memories, and behavior would not be identical. Secondly, the clone would be treated like a sibling, twin. If you have an identical twin, who commits a crime, do you get locked up with your identical twin? No, the twin gets held accountable. It would be absurd to lock up both people for the crime of one person. That is unless the other twin was some how involved in the crime.


You assume that personalities, memories and behavior are unique to an individual and can only be gained through experience - but what if these things turn out to actually be products of the biological make-up of your brain?
The simple fact of the matter is that our science isn't advanced enough to answer these questions yet, most likely specifically because we haven't delved deep enough into the science of cloning. :detective:

Memories, dreams, personality and "soul" are things that we do not yet understand...If I clone myself, however, and find that he grows up to have an entirely different personality and set of behaviors, then we'll have our answer.
Until then...
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Mon 24 May, 2010 05:04 am
@Wisdom Seeker,
Wisdom Seeker;153961 wrote:
Do you guys agree with it? Why or why not?

What is the advantages and disadvantages of human cloning?

Do you think this is a good substitute for Sex?
- we can grow organs for sick people
- we can eliminate genetic defects, thus have healthier people avoiding genetic heirable desises.
- infertile people can have children.
- the woman dominated society are upon us, the male won't become extinct, but be a minority.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Mon 24 May, 2010 07:05 am
@Mentally Ill,
Mentally Ill;168039 wrote:
You assume that personalities, memories and behavior are unique to an individual and can only be gained through experience - but what if these things turn out to actually be products of the biological make-up of your brain?
The simple fact of the matter is that our science isn't advanced enough to answer these questions yet, most likely specifically because we haven't delved deep enough into the science of cloning. :detective:

Memories, dreams, personality and "soul" are things that we do not yet understand...If I clone myself, however, and find that he grows up to have an entirely different personality and set of behaviors, then we'll have our answer.
Until then...


I have seen cases where there were identical twins given up for adoption that were nothing a like in adulthood. Sure they had some similar likes and dislikes but for the most part they were very different. I have also seen similar cases where the twins who lived separate lives had very similar likes and dislikes.

I was never arguing that there would be some traits that wouldn't be identical. However; you can not say that all traits would be exactly identical. Much of your personality comes from experience and environmental factors. But some traits are not set in stone either. With certain skills you can change personalities or with certain accidents you can drastically change a person.
 
Wozz
 
Reply Mon 24 May, 2010 09:54 am
@Wisdom Seeker,
With my post I was only stating with great discovery is great responsibility. If you think our government could handle whipping up a batch of clones and be able to regulate it then you'd be in for a surprise. What happens if China clones an American? See what I'm getting at is it just won't stop..
 
Mentally Ill
 
Reply Mon 24 May, 2010 12:44 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple;168082 wrote:
I have seen cases where there were identical twins given up for adoption that were nothing a like in adulthood. Sure they had some similar likes and dislikes but for the most part they were very different. I have also seen similar cases where the twins who lived separate lives had very similar likes and dislikes.

I was never arguing that there would be some traits that wouldn't be identical. However; you can not say that all traits would be exactly identical. Much of your personality comes from experience and environmental factors. But some traits are not set in stone either. With certain skills you can change personalities or with certain accidents you can drastically change a person.


"I have seen cases where there were identical twins given up for adoption that were nothing a like in adulthood"

Identical twins are not clones of each other...

"you can not say that all traits would be exactly identical."

I didn't.

"Much of your personality comes from experience and environmental factors"

Probably, not certainly.

---------- Post added 05-24-2010 at 11:49 AM ----------

HexHammer;168053 wrote:
- we can grow organs for sick people
- we can eliminate genetic defects, thus have healthier people avoiding genetic heirable desises.
- infertile people can have children.
- the woman dominated society are upon us, the male won't become extinct, but be a minority.


Eliminating genetic defects isn't cloning, that's genetic engineering. Important all the same, and a part of the same sort of medical science.

"infertile people can have children."
Your clone is not your child...You could raise it like a child, but it's not your offspring, it's your exact copy.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Mon 24 May, 2010 01:22 pm
@Mentally Ill,
Mentally Ill;168157 wrote:
Eliminating genetic defects isn't cloning, that's genetic engineering. Important all the same, and a part of the same sort of medical science.

"infertile people can have children."
Your clone is not your child...You could raise it like a child, but it's not your offspring, it's your exact copy.
Per se I say you are right, but let me twist, turn and stretch my definition a bit then.

This cloning buisness isn't just from birth, but all along our lifespan, we are exposed to radiation, cancerous substances homorgetic substances that will disburb us, we therefore suffer genetic mutations. If someone gets lung cancer, we may be able to clone a new lung, and thereby by cloning cure this ill person.

Maybe I'm wrong in my understanding, but genes can be extracted from 2 person and be mixed into a new person, simulating what happens with the spearma and egg.
 
Mentally Ill
 
Reply Mon 24 May, 2010 01:50 pm
@HexHammer,
"This cloning buisness isn't just from birth, but all along our lifespan, we are exposed to radiation, cancerous substances homorgetic substances that will disburb us, we therefore suffer genetic mutations. If someone gets lung cancer, we may be able to clone a new lung, and thereby by cloning cure this ill person."

Definitely. That's the main reason I support cloning - medical breakthroughs.

"Maybe I'm wrong in my understanding, but genes can be extracted from 2 person and be mixed into a new person, simulating what happens with the spearma and egg."

I've never heard of this...that doesn't mean it isn't true though.
If that was the case, I don't think it would count as cloning. A clone is a genetic copy - what you described is a combination of two person's genes which would result in a new and unique genetic code. Essentially, that seems like it's just normal reproduction, the only difference being that a scientist would put two genetic codes together instead of sex.
 
 

 
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