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The Argument from False Pleasures

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(1) Pleasure taken in false a proposition is worthless.
(2) If (1), then hedonism is false.
(3)Thus, hedonism is false.

If I claimed that premise one is potentially question begging as it indirectly implies that pleasure can be worthless, how would you object?

@kesexton,

kesexton;160688 wrote:

(1) Pleasure taken in false a proposition is worthless.
(2) If (1), then hedonism is false.
(3)Thus, hedonism is false.

If I claimed that premise one is potentially question begging as it indirectly implies that pleasure can be worthless, how would you object?

[CENTER] [/CENTER]

@kesexton,

kesexton;160688 wrote:

(1) Pleasure taken in false a proposition is worthless.
(2) If (1), then hedonism is false.
(3)Thus, hedonism is false.

If I claimed that premise one is potentially question begging as it indirectly implies that pleasure can be worthless, how would you object?

Your argument seems to be:

1. If hedonism is true, then there are no false pleasures.
2. There are false pleasures.

Therefore, 3. Hedonism is not true (Hedonism is false).

Is that what you want to argue?

And, if it is, then are you asking whether 2. is true?

That is, of course, a legitimate question. It is always legitimate to ask whether the premises of an argument are true. On the other hand, since all arguments assume the truth of their premises, it is not question-begging to assume premise 2. is true. If the argument were question-begging simply because it assumed the truth of one of its premises, then all arguments would be question-begging, for they all assume the truth of their premises. But that is absurd.

@kesexton,

(1) Pleasure taken in false a proposition is worthless.

isn't a false pleasure still a pleasure?

can there be such a thing as "false pleasure"? what is a "false pleasure?"

i don't think pleasure is worthless. i think pleasure has has worth, value.

@harlequin phil,

harlequin;166218 wrote:

(1) Pleasure taken in false a proposition is worthless.

isn't a false pleasure still a pleasure?

can there be such a thing as "false pleasure"? what is a "false pleasure?"

i don't think pleasure is worthless. i think pleasure has has worth, value.

Plato was the one who talked about false pleasures. What he meant were pleasures that: 1. gave only temporary satisfaction, and, 2. led to greater pain than the pleasure was worth. His image was that of a sieve into which you keep pouring wine hoping it will fill us enough for you do drink, but which empties as quickly as you pour wine into it, so that it is just a waste and a frustration. As Shakespeare described one false pleasure:

"An expense of spirit in a waste of shame, is lust in action"

The expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action

@kesexton,

1. gave only temporary satisfaction, and, 2. led to greater pain than the pleasure was worth.

ok, but satisfaction, although temporary, is satisfaction. whatever pain it might lead to doesn't make the pleasure less.

i have a great time snowboarding through trees, i hit a tree and crack my ribs. my cracked ribs are a pain and i suffered, but it didn't take away from the fun i had flowing through the trees right up to the part where i hit one.

so, taken separately, as two separate events and entities, the pleasure i felt, to me, wasn't false pleasure. no matter how temporary it was, no matter what pain i had after and as a result, was an entirely different matter.

(yes, i did crack my ribs snowboarding through trees. i still snowboard through trees, because of the pleasure and satisfaction i get)

@harlequin phil,

harlequin;166226 wrote:

1. gave only temporary satisfaction, and, 2. led to greater pain than the pleasure was worth.

ok, but satisfaction, although temporary, is satisfaction. whatever pain it might lead to doesn't make the pleasure less.

i have a great time snowboarding through trees, i hit a tree and crack my ribs. my cracked ribs are a pain and i suffered, but it didn't take away from the fun i had flowing through the trees right up to the part where i hit one.

so, taken separately, as two separate events and entities, the pleasure i felt, to me, wasn't false pleasure. no matter how temporary it was, no matter what pain i had after and as a result, was an entirely different matter.

(yes, i did crack my ribs snowboarding through trees. i still snowboard through trees, because of the pleasure and satisfaction i get)

May I be so bold as to make a friendly recommendation that you snowboard somewhere where there are very few, or no, trees. In the years to come that weakened rib bone will likely cause other damage, and by then you will strongly regret your high-risk-taking. A pessimist would say that by then it will be too late, as the body is irreversibly handicapped. I won't say that because I am an optimist-realist.

We shouldn't conflate "pleasure" with "satisfaction:" they are two distinct concepts. Permit me to define the terms, and another term, "joy," for good measure. My analysis is as follows:

Satisfaction = Systemic gratification.

Pleasure = Extrinsic gratification.

Joy = Intrinsiic gratification.

"gratification" here is an undefined term.

The implication is that we ought aim for JOY in life.

For although it is better to be pleased than to be satisfied; it is far, far more wonderful to enjoy the experience deeply.

Don't settle for less than joy: that is a most worthwhile goal.

For a discussion of related matters see the link below. It enables you to have the privilege of reading ETHICAL ADVENTURES, which may result in some enjoyable and happy experience for those who love ethics:

@kesexton,

kesexton;160688 wrote:

(1) Pleasure taken in false a proposition is worthless.
(2) If (1), then hedonism is false.
(3)Thus, hedonism is false.

If I claimed that premise one is potentially question begging as it indirectly implies that pleasure can be worthless, how would you object?

Think your premesis of definition are too narrow and rigid, therefore fails.

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