Ecological utility vs modern utility

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Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 12:05 pm
Anyone familiar with ecology knows that species evolve according to a utility function imposed by their environment, one which compels their genome to achieve maximal or, at least satisfactory, fitness

When I think about the huge problems the world has, it seems reasonable to posit some connection between our ecological past ("evolutionary baggage") and a present in which our efforts at building desirable societies are consistently baffled to some degree and in many cases thwarted entirely

That is to say, we have ideas like "government shouldn't be corrupt" and "people shouldn't be racist" and "retribution is counterproductive" etc., which we value in modern utility functions for whole societies but innate, most likely evolved tendencies get in the way of the same

However, biotechnology has advanced considerably over the past few decades with the products of genetic engineering already in widespread use and the cost of technologies such as DNA sequencing dropping off exponentially

Why not just make sure zygotes who will develop into people with an innate propensity to be greedy, short-sighted or stupid are not carried to term

I accept that achieving a desirable society might be possible without genetic engineering of humans, BUT I don't see how it is preferable

I am still scratching my head looking for downsides in my approach
 
Jackofalltrades phil
 
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2010 06:56 am
@odenskrigare,
It all depends on how you want the so-called desirable society to be. The question is who decides?
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 03:58 pm
@odenskrigare,
If we don't engineer our ideal society through genetics, then we must do it through big brother principle, which would be extremely costly, and have major loopholes. Did CIA prevent 9/11? ..no!

Should we do it through genetics, we must make it so we are highly resistant to stress, psycosis, skitzophrenia and all other undesireable defuncts.

In the starting phase I would expect some really bizar results, which would be highly expected from all new major projects.
 
reasoning logic
 
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 04:44 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;153702 wrote:
If we don't engineer our ideal society through genetics, then we must do it through big brother principle, which would be extremely costly, and have major loopholes. Did CIA prevent 9/11? ..no!

Should we do it through genetics, we must make it so we are highly resistant to stress, psycosis, skitzophrenia and all other undesireable defuncts.

In the starting phase I would expect some really bizar results, which would be highly expected from all new major projects.



Your quote [Should we do it through genetics, we must make it so we are highly resistant to stress, psycosis, skitzophrenia and all other undesireable defuncts]:detective: Does this mean we will not have any more HexHammers?Laughing LOL just kiding. It may mean the end of man kind as we all seem to have some sort of problems.Smile
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 05:20 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic;153722 wrote:
It may mean the end of man kind as we all seem to have some sort of problems.Smile
Indeed. Less crime, less rape, less polution ..etc.
 
Mentally Ill
 
Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2010 07:00 pm
@odenskrigare,
This makes the assumption that human behavior is the product of biology, such that nature reigns supreme over nurture.
To some extent I agree, in that we are driven to have sex with beautiful partners by our genetic programming or in that testosterone and estrogen effect competitiveness in individuals. To some extent I disagree, in that we can consciously choose to restrain ourselves from certain behaviors that would otherwise go unrestrained in the wild, such as murder and robbery for example.
I think it would be a definite possibility that we could decrease tendencies to act violently, but at what cost? Loss of testosterone in males? To a certain extent, the things that make up our lives as homo-sapiens are the same things that drive us in negative directions against our ideals.
I think it would be more preferable to use a system of ethics, rather than a system of genetic programming, to arrive at a better society, although genetic programming could certainly be preferable to random genetic mutation when talking about improving our bodies.
 
 

 
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