Sex before Marriage?

  1. Philosophy Forum
  2. » Ethics
  3. » Sex before Marriage?

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

dawoel
 
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2009 03:44 am
Admittedly the mentality behind this is often religious but not always! So disregarding the argument that, god says nay! Which isn't really an argument at all. Why on earth would this be immoral? Remember, the emphasis is Before Marriage, so what it is about Marriage that is supposed to magically change our entire moral code where sex is concerned?

A few arguments & counter arguments to help:
- Marriage is declaration of love ::: One can "declare" I love you without signing a little piece of paper, besides what does love have to do with sex?
- The purpose of Marriage is to procreate ::: One has the ability to proceate already, marriage changes nothing in that regard.
- Sex before marriage incourages promiscuity ::: No it doesn't, hormones do that.
- Sex before marriage says "I refuse to comit to you properly" ::: What "is" properly, and no it doesn't lack comittment, the couple want to see that they are sexually compattible so that the marriage will be a happy one.
- One can easily get pregnant or get STDs ::: Yes this is an inevitable result of having sex, marriage does not change this fact.
- Condoms go against humanities goal of procreation ::: No they don't, if I plan to have three children in my lifetime I will have at least three shags without a condom, having extra practice with condoms so that I'm good at sex does not reduce that number, contraception is more likely to get you kids than abstinence anyway. Besides, what does that have to do with marriage.
- Contraception is never perfect ::: Well duh! That's why kids need educating about the dangers rather than saying "thou shalt not shag", making them all curious and then complaining about all the teen pregnancies! I'll have you know the rate is way higher in "abstinence only" policy places! & Again, what does this have to do with Marriage!
- The good book says so ::: Yeah and?
 
KaseiJin
 
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2009 03:57 am
@dawoel,
A good question asking of an OP there. I hope a good, well balanced, and sincere discussion would insue. I always suggest to my students that one good thing to do is to make a trial run with the person they are interested in getting married to--shack up for a year or two. That would of course include thoughtful and controlled sexual interaction. The reason for the other things should be obvious, and the reason for the sexual interaction is to see if the two libidos fit well enough.

Of the two major reasons for divorce (which should be avoided as much as possible, I reason) are sexual and financial. Both, can more likely be discerned by actually going through a proto-marriage state, and then the decision to not can be made--assuming a first desire to do so by both parties.

If, of course, the reason for the marriage is for something other than 'love,' it could be a different story (it happens a little in Japan), but I really, really would like to encourage making a great effort to putting a stop to those non-love marriages . . . in most cases.

But yeah, no harm done, sex (and read safe ) is only natural and that's been the way it's been for a good handful of tens of thousands of years, and it's hard to work that out of the system in only a few 500s of years. So, test drive the wheels before you buy 'em (for both parties) !
 
dawoel
 
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2009 04:20 am
@dawoel,
Indeed, actually just before this continues I would also like to point out that there is a difference between love and sex, because a lot of the anti-sex before marriage arguments are based on the idea of love, which is absurd because it's a totally different issue. I Love my Mom, she has done an awful lot for me, I am very attached to her and she to me and we treat each other with a great deal of affection, just like a Husband and Wife in that regard. Love is a "level" of attachment. I feel no erotic feelings for her whatsoever, I am not attracted to her. There are a few women at my Uni whom I am very infatuated with, infatuation is a "level" of attraction. They are not really great friends of mine & I don't even know them that well, there is no affection there. So you see there is a difference. The fact that in the case of boyfriend and girlfriend and husband and wife the two concepts are combined for an even greater "need" for each other leads to confusion. My last girlfriend I felt very attached and attracted to.
But anyway, back to my origional question...(see OP)
 
Elmud
 
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2009 05:26 am
@dawoel,
dawoel;75547 wrote:
Admittedly the mentality behind this is often religious but not always! So disregarding the argument that, god says nay! Which isn't really an argument at all. Why on earth would this be immoral? Remember, the emphasis is Before Marriage, so what it is about Marriage that is supposed to magically change our entire moral code where sex is concerned?

A few arguments & counter arguments to help:
- Marriage is declaration of love ::: One can "declare" I love you without signing a little piece of paper, besides what does love have to do with sex?
- The purpose of Marriage is to procreate ::: One has the ability to proceate already, marriage changes nothing in that regard.
- Sex before marriage incourages promiscuity ::: No it doesn't, hormones do that.
- Sex before marriage says "I refuse to comit to you properly" ::: What "is" properly, and no it doesn't lack comittment, the couple want to see that they are sexually compattible so that the marriage will be a happy one.
- One can easily get pregnant or get STDs ::: Yes this is an inevitable result of having sex, marriage does not change this fact.
- Condoms go against humanities goal of procreation ::: No they don't, if I plan to have three children in my lifetime I will have at least three shags without a condom, having extra practice with condoms so that I'm good at sex does not reduce that number, contraception is more likely to get you kids than abstinence anyway. Besides, what does that have to do with marriage.
- Contraception is never perfect ::: Well duh! That's why kids need educating about the dangers rather than saying "thou shalt not shag", making them all curious and then complaining about all the teen pregnancies! I'll have you know the rate is way higher in "abstinence only" policy places! & Again, what does this have to do with Marriage!
- The good book says so ::: Yeah and?

In my opinion something is lost that can never be regained. Has nothing to do with religion.
 
Khethil
 
Reply Tue 7 Jul, 2009 08:27 am
@Elmud,
Good subject,

... but talk about *dependent*!

For my values, this is extremely important for evaluating a potential mate. The various dimensions of compatibility - in the sexual arena - go far beyond the physical act itself. Being so central to what is a "mate"; it influences bonding potential, the nature of the relationship, roles, ratio of friendship-to-romance and much, much more. In my mind, it's fool hearty to embark upon a lifetime commitment without the in-depth learning about one another that sexuality can bring.

That being said, it's not without risks (some very dire, indeed!) and pitfalls. Even so, so much the better that I thoroughly know the "we" that might be before I make that commitment, even with the risks, than not.

Thanks
 
patriarch
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 08:30 am
@dawoel,
dawoel;75557 wrote:
Indeed, actually just before this continues I would also like to point out that there is a difference between love and sex, because a lot of the anti-sex before marriage arguments are based on the idea of love, which is absurd because it's a totally different issue. I Love my Mom, she has done an awful lot for me, I am very attached to her and she to me and we treat each other with a great deal of affection, just like a Husband and Wife in that regard. Love is a "level" of attachment. I feel no erotic feelings for her whatsoever, I am not attracted to her. There are a few women at my Uni whom I am very infatuated with, infatuation is a "level" of attraction. They are not really great friends of mine & I don't even know them that well, there is no affection there. So you see there is a difference. The fact that in the case of boyfriend and girlfriend and husband and wife the two concepts are combined for an even greater "need" for each other leads to confusion. My last girlfriend I felt very attached and attracted to.
But anyway, back to my origional question...(see OP)


Agree. Love and Sex is two different concepts. Marriage is based upon the love between the wife and the husband, not theire sexual relationship. The functionaries of marriage is to establish a family (born children and raise up them), but this is the consequence but not the cause. Therefore, sex before marriage shouldn't affect the marriage.

By the way, even sex relationship outside of marriage after getting married which is accepted by the partner should not be blamed (Open marriage), as it doesn't against the marriage...
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 09:30 am
@dawoel,
I think the idea of not having sex outside of a marriage is ridiculous at best. Intimacy is a key to any long term relationship between a boyfriend and girlfriend or husband and wife, and how can anyone know that they are truly compatible with one another without an intimate relationship? So many marriages fail due to intimacy issues and a lack of compatibility, and people that wait until after marriage to make love set themselves up for a potential failure that they could have largely avoided.
 
Ares phil
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 09:41 am
@dawoel,
dawoel;75547 wrote:
Admittedly the mentality behind this is often religious but not always! So disregarding the argument that, god says nay! Which isn't really an argument at all. Why on earth would this be immoral? Remember, the emphasis is Before Marriage, so what it is about Marriage that is supposed to magically change our entire moral code where sex is concerned?

A few arguments & counter arguments to help:
- Marriage is declaration of love ::: One can "declare" I love you without signing a little piece of paper, besides what does love have to do with sex?
- The purpose of Marriage is to procreate ::: One has the ability to proceate already, marriage changes nothing in that regard.
- Sex before marriage incourages promiscuity ::: No it doesn't, hormones do that.
- Sex before marriage says "I refuse to comit to you properly" ::: What "is" properly, and no it doesn't lack comittment, the couple want to see that they are sexually compattible so that the marriage will be a happy one.
- One can easily get pregnant or get STDs ::: Yes this is an inevitable result of having sex, marriage does not change this fact.
- Condoms go against humanities goal of procreation ::: No they don't, if I plan to have three children in my lifetime I will have at least three shags without a condom, having extra practice with condoms so that I'm good at sex does not reduce that number, contraception is more likely to get you kids than abstinence anyway. Besides, what does that have to do with marriage.
- Contraception is never perfect ::: Well duh! That's why kids need educating about the dangers rather than saying "thou shalt not shag", making them all curious and then complaining about all the teen pregnancies! I'll have you know the rate is way higher in "abstinence only" policy places! & Again, what does this have to do with Marriage!
- The good book says so ::: Yeah and?


Well I personally believe that the whole idea of marriage sucks... Consider this.. You have a relationship with somebody, its been going on for quite some time now and the time has come to ask the person to marry you. Now I believe that the entire relationship leading up to marriage was merely a competition to reach said marriage. After reaching the goal of marriage the couple then, after a while, began to distance their relationship. They no longer have to please each other and make each other fall in love, it loses the competition. All they have to do is sustain the marriage and that usually sucks =/ Anywho thats how I look at it.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 10:06 am
@dawoel,
If God said nay to sex before marriage then I'd be a virgin for a very long time, im talking cobwebs.
Smile
 
Paggos
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 04:44 pm
@dawoel,
It does go back to religion ultimately. Absolutely, it goes towards whether your morals are. Love, is when two entities are emotionally combined. If they believe they wish to share their love in that way, and it nays with their morals, who are we to judge?
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 11:53 am
@dawoel,
@ dawoel

- no sex b4 marrige = almost no sexual transmitted diseases

- sex b4 marrige = more experienced sex, better sex ..but partners may be choosier and get bored faster of poor sexpartner.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 12:03 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;139059 wrote:
@ dawoel

- no sex b4 marrige = almost no sexual transmitted diseases

- sex b4 marrige = more experienced sex, better sex ..but partners may be choosier and get bored faster of poor sexpartner.


I would have thought that the no sex before marriage could also fall victim to boring sex since neither would know what the hell they were doing. Also what if one didn't like their sexual experience after getting married, are they now stuck with it? That always seemed silly to me. I know for a fact you are not sexually compatible with everyone and I would have to assume that even those who wait would fall into the same possible outcome.
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 04:42 pm
@KaseiJin,
KaseiJin;75551 wrote:
... I always suggest to my students that one good thing to do is to make a trial run with the person they are interested in getting married to--shack up for a year or two. ...

Of the two major reasons for divorce (which should be avoided as much as possible, I reason) are sexual and financial. Both, can more likely be discerned by actually going through a proto-marriage state, and then the decision to not can be made--assuming a first desire to do so by both parties.
...


According to government statistics, premarital cohabitation is related to a higher divorce rate than people who do not do that:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_23/sr23_022.pdf

See page 4.

There are many other factors, like age when married (older is better for a lessor likelihood of divorce), education (more education is associated with a lower rate of divorce), etc. It is a very interesting document on actual divorce rates in the U.S.

It would be interesting to see if Japan has compiled similar information, and what the results are there.
 
Jebediah
 
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 04:59 pm
@dawoel,
Those kinds of statistics are tricky though. You would think that the people who are more willing to live together before marriage, are more willing to get divorced.

From the PDF it seems that it's only for first marriages that it increases the divorce rate:

Quote:
Interestingly, although the probability of
first marriage disruption is higher if the
first marriage was preceded by
cohabitation, this is not the case for
second marriage; if anything,
cohabitation before remarriage may be
associated with a lower probability of
disruption, although the difference is
small and not statistically significant.


I couldn't pin down the factors involved though.
 
 

 
  1. Philosophy Forum
  2. » Ethics
  3. » Sex before Marriage?
Copyright © 2020 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.02 seconds on 09/22/2020 at 05:57:12