On the Sale and Consumption of Drugs

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xris
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:21 am
@Zetherin,
Zetherin;124633 wrote:
Walking down the street has the potential to cause death, but I think you have a higher chance of dying if you stand in the middle of a railroad track as a train is coming.

Clearly we must differentiate from those substances which are known to cause great, often immediate, harm on the body, and those which do not (and this is for starters). It is not just a matter of potential, at least not the loose sense of the word you seem to be employing. That everything has a miniscule chance of killing us, is no reason to consider all consumption equal.



Of course the sale of drugs can have to do with morals. Would you feel right selling heroine to a twelve-year-old?
I would not feel right selling them cigarettes. There is difference in moral opinions and the realities of life. Prohibition has never worked and making drug takers criminals is counter productive. If a child was drinking it would be a matter of great concern but that does not give me any moral responsibility to an adult, whose drinking. I cant understand how degrees of,or even uneven degrees of self harm are categorized as illegal or simply normal.
 
josh0335
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:22 am
@Jebediah,
Jebediah;124447 wrote:
But which is it, collective or individual? Something can be bad for the community, but still right overall, the individualist would argue.


At what point do you think the line should be drawn? How many drink related deaths, or crimes would it take before the state steps in and says 'enough is enough, let's ban the sale of this, regardless of the number of people who use it moderately'? How big does the negative externality have to be before the practise is stopped all together?
 
Caroline
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:26 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;124643 wrote:
How about high calorie and high cholesterol causing food?.
I can eat fast food and not become addicted because it does not have the same addictive properties as nicotine.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:30 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;124630 wrote:
I personally believe cigarettes shoud be bannned, what purpose do they serve?


Ask a cigarette smoker what purpose it serves. I think it's a called a nicotine fix. I personally enjoy a good cigar every now and then. There are plenty of things that we use for recreational purposes. Should we also ban candy because it serves no purpose (whatever that means)? I loathe moral tyranny (moral securitarianism).
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:31 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;124647 wrote:
I can eat fast food and not become addicted because it does not have the same addictive properties as nicotine.


Right. But it is as unhealthful as nicotine, so why not ban it too?
 
hue-man
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:32 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;124647 wrote:
I can eat fast food and not become addicted because it does not have the same addictive properties as nicotine.


Some people do become addicted to fast food because it does have properties that can lead to addiction. Not everyone becomes addicted to nicotine.
 
Jebediah
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:32 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;124647 wrote:
I can eat fast food and not become addicted because it does not have the same addictive properties as nicotine.


What makes addiction bad?
 
Caroline
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:34 am
@hue-man,
hue-man;124649 wrote:
Ask a cigarette smoker what purpose it serves. I think it's a called a nicotine fix. I personally enjoy a good cigar every now and then. There are plenty of things that we use for recreational purposes. Should we also ban candy because it serves no purpose (whatever that means)? I loathe moral tyranny (moral securitarianism).
Candy is a treat wich should be eaten in moderation to avoid diabetes and I'm addicted to the nicotine fix myself and wish I wasn't, if they weren't sold in the first place I woudn't be facing the high possibilty of dying of lung cancer. It's not tryanny it's prevention. What makes addicton bad Jebidiah is when it has a detrimental effect on ones health
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:37 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;124655 wrote:
Candy is a treat wich should be eaten in moderation to avoid diabetes and I'm addicted to the nicotine fix myself and wish I wasn't, if they weren't sold in the first place I woudn't be facing the high possibilty of dying of lung cancer.


Eating sugar does not cause diabetes. Just to ease your mind. Although, of course, eating sugar can aggravate diabetes. But the first should not be inferred from the second.
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:38 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;124655 wrote:
Candy is a treat wich should be eaten in moderation to avoid diabetes and I'm addicted to the nicotine fix myself and wish I wasn't, if they weren't sold in the first place I woudn't be facing the high possibilty of dying of lung cancer.
So should it be legal to use heroin, if I use it sparingly?
 
hue-man
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:40 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;124655 wrote:
Candy is a treat wich should be eaten in moderation to avoid diabetes and I'm addicted to the nicotine fix myself and wish I wasn't, if they weren't sold in the first place I woudn't be facing the high possibilty of dying of lung cancer.


And cigarettes are a treat, which shouldn't be smoked on a regular basis if you're concerned for your health. If you didn't smoke them you wouldn't be facing the high possibility of dying of lung cancer. You're a grown up, so you have to take personal responsibility for your actions.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:40 am
@xris,
xris;124657 wrote:
So should it be legal to use heroin, if I use it sparingly?
Yes if control over the use is limited but you have to take into account that a lot of people can't use it sparingly so no and yes.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:42 am
@hue-man,
hue-man;124659 wrote:
An cigarettes are a treat, which shouldn't be smoked on a regular basis if you care about you're concerned for your health. If you didn't smoke them you wouldn't be facing the high possibility of dying of lung cancer. You're a grown up, so you have to take personal responsibility for your actions.


You forget that the UK is a nanny-state. But the United States is getting there fast now.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:43 am
@hue-man,
hue-man;124659 wrote:
An cigarettes are a treat, which shouldn't be smoked on a regular basis if you care about you're concerned for your health. If you didn't smoke them you wouldn't be facing the high possibility of dying of lung cancer. You're a grown up, so you have to take personal responsibility for your actions.
It goes beyond a treat when you physically need it and I started smoking when I was a kid due to peer pressure, not a grown up but by then I was well and truly dependent.
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:49 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;124660 wrote:
Yes if control over the use is limited but you have to take into account that a lot of people can't use it sparingly so no and yes.
I cant see them bringing out a law that recommends the daily intake of heroine.
 
Jebediah
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:50 am
@hue-man,
Going back to the original statement:

hue-man wrote:
I personally believe that selling substances that can cause harm to a person is morally permissible as long as the consumer is aware of the potential risks.


I think we've modified this, removing "is aware" and replacing it with "knows". I think regardless of age, you don't sell something to someone that they could hurt themselves with unless you have reason to believe they can handle it; that they know what they're getting into.

How does that hold up to the examples provided?


  • Drugs to a 12 year old--too young to really make decisions based on risk
  • Suicide--euthanasia vs teenage depressive seems to be drawn down the "know what they're doing" line, yes?
  • Mildly harmful/recreational--warning labels and education suffice
  • addictive--how does anyone know before hand what the addiction will be like? I think a strong argument could be made for not selling highly addictive drugs to someone who isn't addicted.



Of course, the "is it morally permissible for you to personally sell" is different from "what drugs should be illegal", because that has to keep matters of practicality in mind.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:52 am
@xris,
xris;124667 wrote:
I cant see them bringing out a law that recommends the daily intake of heroine.

It wouldn't be a law to recommend it, it would be a law to help control it, heroin is rife anyway.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:53 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;124662 wrote:
It goes beyond a treat when you physically need it and I started smoking when I was a kid due to peer pressure, not a grown up but by then I was well and truly dependent.


Well you're a grown up now, so take some responsibility and quit if that's what you want to do. I use to smoke those things when I was a teen, too, but I stopped completely roughly six years ago. It wasn't very hard for me to quit, but every person is different.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:54 am
@hue-man,
hue-man;124670 wrote:
Well you're a grown up now, so take some responsibility and quit if that's what you want to do. I use to smoke those things when I was a teen, too, but I stopped completely roughly six years ago.

Yeah I know, I'm trying but who was responsible when I was a kid? the government who only sell them to make money.
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2010 09:56 am
@Caroline,
Not trying hard enough, we all have similar stories. You can do it, I know you can.
 
 

 
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