An interesting question, as I know that, at least in the UK, suicide is illegal.

I suppose it depends which of two views you have; at least, which of the two sides of the argument you agree with. Generally, from what I know, there are only two opinions on the subject.

• If you are a sympathizer, then the answer would evidently be no. I haven't had any first hand experience with anything like this, but I imagien that there are suicide sympathizers out there; people who feel sorry for those who are suffering, not only to the degree of choosing to take their own life, but also in failing the attempt.
  
• On the other hand, there are those who believe that any kind of self-inflicted pain or suffering is selfish of the person concerned, due to the emotional impact it can have on their friends and family. However, the two opinions can easily cross over (as I've just realized), because evidently the friends and family really care about the person, and therefore would not want to see them being punished.
  

A solution? Well, really it comes down to what I've felt is best all along. The person concerned cannot necessarily be trusted to continue within society, yet solitary confinement isn't the answer either, as it can have disasterous effects on the mind. Therefore, I suppose therapy is the only real way to go, in a mental institution, where the person is treated well, and allowed to see family and friends frequently. I suppose this could still be seen as a punishment, but certainly to a lesser degree than many of us have in mind.

I know that sometimes the more brutal methods can have the more significant results, but it's something that has to be treated with care, suicide.
Still, I'm no expert. I personally don't think prison is the answer in the majority of cases, but I suppose we don't have the people, or facilities, required to rehabilitate everybody who is not completely sound of mind.

Yes, with deathpenelty:eek::a-ok:. No, I don't think we should punish suicide attempt, let's help them get back to their life instead. Why try to make their lifes even worse? But I still think that suicide, in most cases, is a bit selfish

It is a bit of a grey area. When someone tries to commit suicide the last thing anyone wants to do is prosecute someone who's desperate/depressed enough to kill themselves, help is what they need not be put into the criminal system. I cant say I've heard of many cases where people have been prosecuted for this.

i am not sure why you want this question deconstructed Arif. Deconstructing a text is different to answering a question within it. Or deciding the value of it conclusively. Not only that but

is a very short text!

We could note that it is written, on an internet forum and on a philosophy forum within a sub branch of ethics.

That it is written means we are likely to get different responses to situations like face to face meetings, or a day time tv programme, an appointed commitee.

That it is on a philosophy forum might tend to infer reason and analysis of the question (or not ) while the mask of avatars and handles of the internet enables some of us to speak without certain guilts and fears arising.

And if the question were placed in the context of a religious forum we might expect it to be responded to differently.

might be rewritten as "Should we the punishers, Punish a person for suicide attempt?"

Who are the punishers? The law (which country?) or a religious community etc.

If we take the law in the west where it is strictly speaking illegal but rarely prosecuted, we might ask the history of that law? Where and when did it come from? What culture?

Nice comments. And the question is interesting too:
"Should we the punishers, Punish a person for suicide attempt?"

I can't see why we should?

Deconstructing? Do you mean relating it to another text?

I think this is the wrong question entirely. Punishment doesn't solve the problem.

If this hypothetical person wanted to commit suicide, imagine how he/she feels about life. And after being unsuccessful, punishment is his/her greeting card??

True, situation matters. Depends if 'we' love this person or if we've never met the person before. I mean, what is the use of love if it plays no role in the matter. Punishment is not an act of love, it is showing indifference to solving the problem.

I'm not saying discipline is unimportant here, just that I can't find the relevance in punishing. I mean, in a typical scenario, does this perspective which drives that physical will to commit suicide require discipline? Ofcourse, but perhaps discipline of a different nature of that which punishment is incapable of providing.


If this hypothetical person has a mental illness, the worst thing one can do is show pity for this person, that is my opinion anyways, and in no way does that imply choosing the opposite (punishment).

I think one of the main drives of wanting to commit suicide regardless of how introverted, extroverted, or hermit-like this person is, is the feeling of isolation. Perhaps the best thing is to make this person feel welcome, not feel welcome to the option of suicide ofcourse, but to feel at home here, in this blimp of an existence called life. Home does not have to be this uncanny place, or the wait for such, and in the state of anxiety for such.

Likewise, empathy is important, not sympathy.


If ever this question was invoked by any person in the world due to its difficulties with religious affiliations well imagine how good that'll look on one's resume to heaven when God finds out about this idea of punishing the attempts to leave the Earth.

"So you want into heaven, eh"

"Y-Yes, yes I do"

"I was just browsing over the leaves of your life and happened to come across a time when you yourself knew to punish this person for a suicide attempt"

"Yes, murder is a sin, including the murder of oneself"

"And you thought to punish this person, because ofcourse in doing so such a sin as suicide would therefore never be attempted again afterwards"

"Well I am only following the scriptures, I'm sure it was for the best"

"Ah yes the scriptures, well then ofcourse you may enter"

Punishing is so much easier a course of action than love and devotion to helping another, why bother helping this fellow.

But that's always going to be the dilemna isn't it. Why bother? Interesting how that similar thought would bring about a course of action like the penance of punishing the other who felt that same thought...

Edit: I saw the deconstruction thread Arif, and I will post something relevant now.

---------- Post added 08-02-2009 at 03:32 PM ----------




Well its grammatically incorrect is it not. Forgot the 'a' in between for and suicide. Unless this is a purposeful typological error. But I'm assuming you do not speak just english. And you capitalized "Punish" which suggests (to me) this person who asks the question is a believer and holds the concept with high regard. Though asking the question shows he (must be a he, women don't ask this, they don't say "should" unless there's flirting going on) is questioning such a belief which would drive such praise to the concept.

Perhaps this person would have therefore experienced a family member attempt suicide, a loved one is more likely. This believer would be an objectivist (Oh let's not deny Rand made it to heaven, lol), would probably not stop to question his religiously affiliated beliefs amidst the sight of such an attempt commited by a stranger.

The fact that the 'a' was not in there suggests that the questioner cannot separate himself from the act, and he himself is having 'considerations'. And that would only further justify his conscience when going about asking the question to many people in the first place.


If I have the deconstruction concept right, might I add that it is neat and very useful, but hardly accurate.

the reaction to suicide attempts is very cultural. In the west that means we have freedom to express individual reactions.

I don't think in the west we can any longer legislate a crime against it, unless the attempt involved endangering others. The most we can realisitically do is say that all insurance is none payable. But none of this addresses our natural sympathies for anyone driven to such a thing.

There is of course the on going euthanasia debate, which seems to be moving towards acceptance, if certain criterion are satisfied. Modern pain killers are not all they are cracked up to be, and besides debilitation is often a terrible psychological suffering too. But most western cultures are wary of the legal framework, let alone the moral. So they fudge and procrastinate.

It is easier for the state to posture and prosecute the 'assistance' of euthanasia suicide...... which is even more of a minefield of ethical and legal practice. Hence utter inconsistency.

Absolutely not! When a person tries to commit suicide he/she is suffering from a brain disturb (something chemical), thus the person can't use reason properly to take such a decision. However, one may commit suicide for a reasonable motivation: if one's existance brings pain to beloved people; if one's death will bring good things to those people (despite the pain of losing such a person, something good might happen in extreme cases). Regardless cases like that, there are no other motivations for suicide. To make it shorter: If a person suffers from a brain disturb, he/she must be treated. If a person has a logical motivation to commit suicide, he/she must be respected. Threaten pontencial suicide with punishment is just another way of torturing people. (and also to stimulate people to really commit it because to give up and be punished it's not such a good option.)

Let me just say that in practical terms, in my career in medicine I have taken care of LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of suicide attempts. I take care of a few every month. And I have never once seen any police interest or involvement, ever (with the exception of children in whom social services become involved). And believe me I do see law enforcement get involved with other patient issues, so it's not like I'm out of the legal loop.

Patients with suicide attempts get sent to the Emergency Room (and are often admitted to the hospital), at which time they get seen by a psychiatrist, and then based on the psychiatrists' judgement of their risk, they either go home or go to an inpatient psychiatric unit once they are medically cleared.

It may be that the illegality of suicide attempts is on the books but is not enforced in practice. This may be that we now recognize suicidality as something treatable, and punishing it does society no good.