Transhumanism as a value

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hue-man
 
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2009 12:23 pm
I would like to get some thoughts on transhumanism. First, for those who don't know, transhumanism is the belief that humans should seek to improve upon the limiting and unfortunate aspects of the human condition. It is the belief that we should seek to transcend these misfortunes, and thus the term trans-humanism.

What do you guys think about that? Some people argue that the natural pain and suffering that comes with being human has resulted in some of the best art, but should that be a reason to enable this suffering? Is that argument not akin to saying that we should value the suffering that comes with poverty or warfare because it can result in great art?

Should we value our ability to overcome some of the biological misfortunes and limitations that we have acquired, or should we value the pain and sorrow that these misfortunes inflict on us?
 
Caroline
 
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2009 12:53 pm
@hue-man,
Natural pain is alright if you mean loss of a loved one or something, but i dont see war and hunger as natural to me that isnt natural, it goes against the grain, when there's enough food to go around etc.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2009 01:39 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline wrote:
Natural pain is alright if you mean loss of a loved one or something, but i dont see war and hunger as natural to me that isnt natural, it goes against the grain, when there's enough food to go around etc.


I guess that depends on what you define as natural. I would consider warfare to be misfortune inflicted by other people. I would consider blindness, missing limbs, heart failure, cancer, mental disability, among all of the other diseases, to be misfortune inflicted by natural circumstances. That's what I'm talking about transcending.
 
nerdfiles
 
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2009 09:11 pm
@hue-man,
So your question is: Should we value things?
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 12:42 am
@nerdfiles,
As this is posted in the ethics forum I doubt many people here would say to aleviate suffering would be unethical. The real ethical dilemmas concerning the transhumanist/post-human movement are with genetic engineering and bio-mechanical engineering. These technologies when perfected will be primarily available to the wealthy prolongiong life or in some cases making them super/posthuman. Now is it ethical to aleviate the physical suffering of the rich and not the poor? Is it any different than what happens now? Is it unethical to be that "unatural"? These IMO are some of the questions that need to be discussed concerning transhumanism.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 06:23 am
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:
As this is posted in the ethics forum I doubt many people here would say to aleviate suffering would be unethical. The real ethical dilemmas concerning the transhumanist/post-human movement are with genetic engineering and bio-mechanical engineering. These technologies when perfected will be primarily available to the wealthy prolongiong life or in some cases making them super/posthuman. Now is it ethical to aleviate the physical suffering of the rich and not the poor? Is it any different than what happens now? Is it unethical to be that "unatural"? These IMO are some of the questions that need to be discussed concerning transhumanism.

I believe it is unethical to not treat the poor because it is down to money.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2009 07:27 am
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:
As this is posted in the ethics forum I doubt many people here would say to aleviate suffering would be unethical. The real ethical dilemmas concerning the transhumanist/post-human movement are with genetic engineering and bio-mechanical engineering. These technologies when perfected will be primarily available to the wealthy prolongiong life or in some cases making them super/posthuman. Now is it ethical to aleviate the physical suffering of the rich and not the poor? Is it any different than what happens now? Is it unethical to be that "unatural"? These IMO are some of the questions that need to be discussed concerning transhumanism.


I agree, but some people believe that the idea itself, of transcending the misfortunes and limitations of the human condition, is a bad thing. It's sounds silly, but that's because these people are appealing to "tradition".

I personally believe that genetic engineering or gene therapy should become the standard if we are able to use it to prevent diseases. There is, however, the problem of this technology getting into the wrong hands. Someone like Hitler would have made a "master race" with such technology.

I agree that the biggest issue is whether or not these emerging medical technologies will be available to everyone. I'm an egalitarian, and so I believe that everyone should have access to good quality medical care. Thanks to liberalism, more people are able to receive quality health care, and most developed nations have universal health care.
 
Khethil
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 06:44 am
@hue-man,
The pain and sorrow that we experience, as part of the 'human condition' have indeed netted much in terms of art, science, literature, sacrifice, compassion and so on. But no, that's no reason to not explore ways to improve ourselves.

I'll admit to some measure of conflict on this issue. To illlustrate, let's talk about extending lifespans.[INDENT] I'd love to live longer. I think I could contribute more doubling my lifespan. My children, my wife and my friends could benefit from my living longer. Benefits from the lessons I've learned - whatever good I've brought to this world - are maximized by my being here longer. As a general rule I think most people would love and relish the chance to extend their lives.
[/INDENT][INDENT] Overpopulation, burgeoning health care systems that can't accommodate so many people, over-extension of resources, sprawling communities that expand far beyond their means as the population and strain on resources grow. The best life isn't necessarily the longest, but the 'best lived'.
[/INDENT]Good for Me: I like the fact that, for the most part, I'm a natural-creature. I have two sets of trans-human modifications (sight correction and reproductive sterilization). Both of these modifications have improved the quality of my life immensely. Had I not my sight modified, I'd have surely befallen more accidents - had I not voluntarily had my ability to reproduce modified, I'd have likely fathered more children than my means and desire can accomodate. My immune system has been modified to resist various diseases and I'm very, very grateful for that.

How Good Might it Get?: A third arm would be convenient, as would telepathy and x-ray vision (I also have some ideas for modifying my wife but we'll leave that alone for now). How about a coke dispenser in my right thigh, chameleon skin as a fashion statement or the ability to digest pine needles as a grocery cost-cutting measure. Oh! And while we're at it; how about replacing feet with wheels that can also come with the optional chrome finish?

No, there's nothing wrong with transhuman efforts as a whole but I will say this: Everything that can be "taken too far" or abused by humans, will be.

Thanks
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 07:15 am
@hue-man,
I dont understand how come we're not controlling overpopulation by doing something like the Chinese.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 11:20 am
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:
The pain and sorrow that we experience, as part of the 'human condition' have indeed netted much in terms of art, science, literature, sacrifice, compassion and so on. But no, that's no reason to not explore ways to improve ourselves.

I'll admit to some measure of conflict on this issue. To illlustrate, let's talk about extending lifespans.[INDENT] I'd love to live longer. I think I could contribute more doubling my lifespan. My children, my wife and my friends could benefit from my living longer. Benefits from the lessons I've learned - whatever good I've brought to this world - are maximized by my being here longer. As a general rule I think most people would love and relish the chance to extend their lives.
[/INDENT][INDENT] Overpopulation, burgeoning health care systems that can't accommodate so many people, over-extension of resources, sprawling communities that expand far beyond their means as the population and strain on resources grow. The best life isn't necessarily the longest, but the 'best lived'.
[/INDENT]Good for Me: I like the fact that, for the most part, I'm a natural-creature. I have two sets of trans-human modifications (sight correction and reproductive sterilization). Both of these modifications have improved the quality of my life immensely. Had I not my sight modified, I'd have surely befallen more accidents - had I not voluntarily had my ability to reproduce modified, I'd have likely fathered more children than my means and desire can accomodate. My immune system has been modified to resist various diseases and I'm very, very grateful for that.

How Good Might it Get?: A third arm would be convenient, as would telepathy and x-ray vision (I also have some ideas for modifying my wife but we'll leave that alone for now). How about a coke dispenser in my right thigh, chameleon skin as a fashion statement or the ability to digest pine needles as a grocery cost-cutting measure. Oh! And while we're at it; how about replacing feet with wheels that can also come with the optional chrome finish?

No, there's nothing wrong with transhuman efforts as a whole but I will say this: Everything that can be "taken too far" or abused by humans, will be.

Thanks


:lol:This was a good post. I like that how good might it get part.

I agree that our current societal system cannot accommodate excessive population growth.

---------- Post added at 01:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 PM ----------

Caroline wrote:
I dont understand how come we're not controlling overpopulation by doing something like the Chinese.


We don't do what the Chinese are doing because we are firm believers in liberty, and telling parents how many children they can have and what sex they should be is just not the American way.

Some researchers say that the population overgrowth thing is untrue because all of the developed nations are actually having less children and the population growth is starting to go down. Even the developing nations are having less children as their living standards increase.

Taking on the overpopulation myth - Washington Times

Overpopulation is a myth, researcher says - News
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 11:51 am
@hue-man,
I never said do exactly what the Chinese are doing, what i meant is saying something like only have two children as opposed to more is a good way to help reduce the overpopulation, nothing at all to do with liberty.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 02:00 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline wrote:
I never said do exactly what the Chinese are doing, what i meant is saying something like only have two children as opposed to more is a good way to help reduce the overpopulation, nothing at all to do with liberty.


I know that you didn't say that we should do what the Chinese are doing. You just asked why we're not doing what the Chinese are doing, and so I answered the question.

I agree that we should only have two children. If not for overpopulation, then at least for your own sanity - lol.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 07:42 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man wrote:
I know that you didn't say that we should do what the Chinese are doing. You just asked why we're not doing what the Chinese are doing, and so I answered the question.

I agree that we should only have two children. If not for overpopulation, then at least for your own sanity - lol.

Yeah i guess i should've explained my post a bit better.
I think one would be enough for me:)
 
Elmud
 
Reply Thu 23 Apr, 2009 10:10 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline wrote:
Yeah i guess i should've explained my post a bit better.
I think one would be enough for me:)
I heard someone say long ago, that children are a poor mans wealth. when I was young, I thought when I grew up that i wanted about ten kids. Guess i watched the Waltons too much. Had this idealistic view of what a large family could be like. I have four living children. They're all grown now. They are the love of my life and i would not have wanted it any other way. I wish I could do it all over again.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Thu 23 Apr, 2009 10:15 pm
@Elmud,
Elmud wrote:
I heard someone say long ago, that children are a poor mans wealth. when I was young, I thought when I grew up that i wanted about ten kids. Guess i watched the Waltons too much. Had this idealistic view of what a large family could be like. I have four living children. They're all grown now. They are the love of my life and i would not have wanted it any other way. I wish I could do it all over again.


I'm really unsure about having kids. I know that I wouldn't have them anytime soon, but I'm not sure that I want them at all. I'm pretty sure that I want a life partner or wife, but I don't think that I want kids. If I do have kids it wouldn't be more than two. I definitely want a dog, though, kids or no kids.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2009 07:16 am
@Elmud,
Elmud wrote:
I heard someone say long ago, that children are a poor mans wealth. when I was young, I thought when I grew up that i wanted about ten kids. Guess i watched the Waltons too much. Had this idealistic view of what a large family could be like. I have four living children. They're all grown now. They are the love of my life and i would not have wanted it any other way. I wish I could do it all over again.

Yeah, i miss the family life too, i come from a family of five and it was great growing up and i guess that's one of the things that i would enjoy, the family life but i dont have the time to commit to a child because it's a full-time job.
 
 

 
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