application of evolution

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Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2008 08:50 pm
what i want to do is right and moral. All of my desires are what nature has deemed best for my survival.

Misapplication if you think so please explain
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2008 09:10 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
But all of your desires are not what nature has deemed best for your survival. Desires are not constant due to evolutionary changes I suppose. And instances of desires are never always there so when a society changes desires open up and close. So this inconsistency does not go well with the constancy of nature, as nature is rather constant, generally enough.
 
OntheWindowStand
 
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2008 09:25 pm
@Holiday20310401,
How do you know my desires are not what nature has in store?
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2008 09:28 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
Well I doubt that nature would allow for humanity to turn on nature.

And I doubt nature is self aware of its effects on us to have intentions for what you deem as the best path for survival.

In terms of survival the ****roach could survive the ice age, and has survived many threats.
 
OntheWindowStand
 
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2008 09:30 pm
@Holiday20310401,
that is my point... and thats why posted
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2008 09:34 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
Lol, can't spell corkroach.. and sory didn't realise you advocated what I said. lol.
 
midas77
 
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2008 10:59 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401 wrote:
Well I doubt that nature would allow for humanity to turn on nature.

And I doubt nature is self aware of its effects on us to have intentions for what you deem as the best path for survival.

In terms of survival the ****roach could survive the ice age, and has survived many threats.

Not bad for someone so young. Keep it up holiday, you're on the road to thigns great:)
 
OntheWindowStand
 
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2008 11:40 am
@midas77,
I made that point first midas dont give someone else credit
 
midas77
 
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2008 12:38 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand, Sorry to bypass you. I'm not giving credit on the point you or Holiday has made. In point of fact i don't agree with it. I'm complementing Holiday for his clear and concise delivery of his point.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2008 09:51 pm
@midas77,
When did you make that point first?
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2008 07:16 am
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand wrote:
what i want to do is right and moral. All of my desires are what nature has deemed best for my survival.

Misapplication if you think so please explain


Nature certainly doesn't define all of our desires and values.

There is nothing about evolution that imbues you with some superior fitness. You have only inherited what was best for your ancestors survival and that does not imply it will be best for yours.

Evolution cannot give moral behavior, it can only grant social behavior. Moral behavior MUST be chosen, and we certainly cannot choose what traits nature granted us.

With that said, what are you getting at here?
 
OntheWindowStand
 
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2008 11:02 am
@Mr Fight the Power,
Because evolution implies things are always improving then I am the best version that exists therefor what I say is moral is
 
boagie
 
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2008 11:22 am
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand wrote:
Because evolution implies things are always improving then I am the best version that exists therefor what I say is moral is


OntheWindowStand,Smile

The world you inhabit is amoral. Always improving the man says, evolution does not imply anything of the kind, the physcial world changes relative to the cosmos perhaps, the organism adapts through mutation adaptation and death to a changing world. Morality is a social adaptation not directly in relation to the natural world but to the artifical world of society. Nature red in tooth and claw, that is amoral, no guilt in nature, that is just the way its is, but if you simply go by the dictates of nature, then you will be living back in the jungle. There is no morality in nature, accept in the consciousness that it produces, so you may see signs of it in groups of animals, it only occurs in social groups, so society is its necessity.
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2008 01:33 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand wrote:
Because evolution implies things are always improving then I am the best version that exists therefor what I say is moral is


Evolution does not imply things are always improving.
 
mashiaj
 
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 10:05 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand wrote:
what i want to do is right and moral. All of my desires are what nature has deemed best for my survival.

Misapplication if you think so please explain


morality is not nature imposed, it is government, church, society imposed if you kill other you go to jail, hell, killed etc. if were no jail of something, the people always do the bad.
 
boagie
 
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 12:38 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand;

Nature is amoral, why would you assume nature has any morality to bestow, I think what you mean is you do not think you should have to go against your own nature in order to survive in society is that about right?
 
OntheWindowStand
 
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 02:25 pm
@boagie,
yep sounds good aaaaaaaaaa
 
boagie
 
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 06:32 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand wrote:
yep sounds good aaaaaaaaaa



There is a trade offs for the benifits of belonging to a society, it is a social contract if you like. What specifics did you have in mind?
 
OntheWindowStand
 
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 06:36 pm
@boagie,
All society does really is protect you from people doing some things deemed wrong. But when it comes down to it you might have to do some of that, then it is no longer beneficial to follow the contract of society so to speak
 
boagie
 
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2008 06:45 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand wrote:
All society does really is protect you from people doing some things deemed wrong. But when it comes down to it you might have to do some of that, then it is no longer beneficial to follow the contract of society so to speak


:)Well, if you have accepted the contract and enjoy the benifts of living within the society, then you break the contract at your own peril. The jails are full of people who have reneged on the contract. Don't forget your adaptability is mainly to the artifical environment of society not the physcial world or nature. Society is a major advantage to dealing with nature. It is as a womb if you like, it protects you so that you might have thoughts other than thoughts survival.
 
 

 
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