On Moral Relativism

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Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 08:51 pm
Are all cultures equal.

For example:

If it is legal and laudable to sentence a homosexual to death in Islam, does that make it o.k? If a gay travels from the U.K. (where being 'queer' is applauded) to an Islamic country or culture and has gay sex in that country should he be put to death?

Any thoughts or ideas on this one?

-- Pythagorean
 
pilgrimshost
 
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 09:02 pm
@Pythagorean,
I would have to say no, because it is apparent in the study of cultures and tribal communities over the world (in sociology) there is a plethora of characteristics conserning morals, ethics and civilization. What we consider as rational behaviour, and social deviances may not hold sway with some locals.
 
Pythagorean
 
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 09:11 pm
@pilgrimshost,
pilgrimshost wrote:
I would have to say no, because it is apparent in the study of cultures and tribal communities over the world (in sociology) there is a plethora of characteristics conserning morals, ethics and civilization. What we consider as rational behaviour, and social diviances my not hold sway with some locals.



I'm sorry, I don't clearly understand your answer pilgrimshost. Do you mean it is right to kill homosexuals in Islam or is it wrong? Please tell me what you think. Do you disagree with Islam or should they kill the homosexuals?

-- Pythagorean
 
pilgrimshost
 
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 09:16 pm
@Pythagorean,
Ok, didnt think you wanted a direct answer to the 'queer' situation. We'll I would say it is definitely wrong to do such a thing. A whole forum could be occupied with the reasons why, but thats a different subject altogether.
 
Justin
 
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 09:27 pm
@pilgrimshost,
"Thou shall not kill"... does this ring a bell?
 
pilgrimshost
 
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 09:44 pm
@Justin,
This isnt appropriate but I have to say it, if your going to include scripture to make a point, what about the one about 'laying with someone of the same sex'.
 
Pythagorean
 
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 09:56 pm
@pilgrimshost,
pilgrimshost wrote:
Ok, didnt think you wanted a direct answer to the 'queer' situation. We'll I would say it is definitely wrong to do such a thing. A whole forum could be occupied with the reasons why, but thats a different subject altogether.


It's not the 'queer' situation it's the Muslim situation. They kill people who are homosexuals. I take it that you would rather abolish the Moslems then? I'm glad we cleared that up!

It would seem that you have to either burn all bibles or kill all homosexuals. Which one would you choose?

-- Pythagorean
 
pilgrimshost
 
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 10:43 pm
@Pythagorean,
Thankfully that would never be a serious dilemor for me, I dont have a problem with either. This is a public forum and I dont think its right to comment on this issue here--but if you would like to refer to your pm....
 
Pythagorean
 
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 10:52 pm
@Pythagorean,
In England where you are from they have thought crimes. I understand the laws of your country conflict with the practise of philosophy. I didn't mean to get you in trouble.

-- Pythagorean
 
Justin
 
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 10:55 pm
@Pythagorean,
pilgrimshost wrote:
This isnt appropriate but I have to say it, if your going to include scripture to make a point, what about the one about 'laying with someone of the same sex'.

Based on the sexed opposites in nature I'd have say that 'laying with someone of the same sex' would not be in balance and against the laws of mother nature.

Pythagorean wrote:
It would seem that you have to either burn all bibles or kill all homosexuals. Which one would you choose?


This isn't really a fair question for anyone to have to answer in a public forum. To kill another human being because of a judgement you've made against them is not what I'd consider to be right. Nature or God is the ultimate judge and that's not for you or I to take into our own hands. Will they burn in hell for it... That again isn't for me or you to decide and I personally would rather spend my energy on something more productive than worrying about the sexual preference of others.

As far as burning the bibles, that doesn't accomplish anything either. According to scripture the 'Word' was long before the Bible was ever written. I consider the Bible to be more of an historical account of what went on at the time the books were written. For me, the Bible isn't the end all be all.
 
Pythagorean
 
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 11:09 pm
@Pythagorean,
Justin, what I wrote was rhetorical.

You don't know whether I'm a homosexual or a Muslim, or both.

The point is that different cultures have different rules and the question is: is there such a thing as cultural or moral relativism?

We don't have to decide on the specifics just whether or not cultures are equal or relative or whether any utopia can exist etc. These are the questions of philosophy, it's not my fault that he got upset - he lives in England where they have thought crimes - and I'm not supposed to talk about right or wrong with respect to the laws on the books? What is this an authoritarian society or what? In China you get jailed for free speech, and I think that sort of thing is obviously coming to America soon.

-- Pythagorean
 
pilgrimshost
 
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 11:29 pm
@Pythagorean,
Right lets clear this up right here, right now. Yes I live in England, Great Britain. Im deeply proud to be so, born and bred. My heritage is second to none. MY Ancesters have forght and died for this land, people and crown for over 1600 years and possibly more. We have won two world wars and one world cup, and had the biggest empire the world has ever seen. Sporned the most spoken language of all time, birth place of democracy-the original parliament and have the best music, not to mention the most professional millitary since the Roman empire. Surpricing what a small rock in the sea can do! Yet we are being sold out by the career politicians who want to give it all up to Brussels. Your right, I do live in a country that is pollitically correct mental- but despite what some might say, im not racist or descrimitory, Im Patriotic and proud of it. Rule Brittania.
 
Pythagorean
 
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 11:36 pm
@Pythagorean,
To pilgrimshost:

No one is saying that you are racist or practise discrimination. What I'm saying is that your masters in Brussels won't let you practise philosophy openly as we do here in the greatest country of all earth, the indisputable leader of the world, the United States of I say what I want, America!:cool:

-- Pythagorean
 
pilgrimshost
 
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 12:00 am
@Pythagorean,
Ok mate, your a good bloke. So I wont spoil your patriotism, sorry.
 
Justin
 
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 08:13 am
@pilgrimshost,
Pythagorean wrote:
Justin, what I wrote was rhetorical.

You don't know whether I'm a homosexual or a Muslim, or both.

The point is that different cultures have different rules and the question is: is there such a thing as cultural or moral relativism?

We don't have to decide on the specifics just whether or not cultures are equal or relative or whether any utopia can exist etc. These are the questions of philosophy, it's not my fault that he got upset - he lives in England where they have thought crimes - and I'm not supposed to talk about right or wrong with respect to the laws on the books? What is this an authoritarian society or what? In China you get jailed for free speech, and I think that sort of thing is obviously coming to America soon.

-- Pythagorean


On your cultural or moral relativism, I have to agree that yes, that's present. What you can do in one country you cannot do in another. These are cultural differences. However, the only difference or seperation is the one people impose on themselves of by the hands or imposed upon them by the hands dictators and leaders.

Just take a look at the leaders that lead these countries and carryout the laws of their ancestors without any knowing or caring to know of the laws of nature. This includes our leaders (USA).

We're all cut from the same stock but raised in different cultures. Reverting back to truth, there is only one truth just as there is only one people. United we stand and divided we fall... well guess what, the world is falling. The world needs to unite as one and not the individual countries or cultures. Sure there will be cultural differences but in a perfect world world everyone would know truth. Man is not body but spirit (energy).

Whats moral in one country may be immoral in another country and that's not going to change until the whole of mankind evolves into a conscious awareness of the one universal source and the one fulcrum or the one energy that makes everything grow and evolve.

As far as practicing philosophy freely, the internet has now bridged a gap between nations that allow us all to interact in forums like this. To join together and discuss philosophy freely in a forum such as this, is not only a wonderful way to unite people in understanding and friendship, but it also signifies another step in evolution towards mutal understanding and kinship.

I'll quit rambling Smile
 
perplexity
 
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 09:39 am
@Justin,
Justin wrote:
...However, the only difference or seperation is the one people impose on themselves of by the hands or imposed upon them by the hands dictators and leaders.


It surprises me that people still talk like this, with the masses as the unfortunate victims of individual personalities blessed with extreme power as if because of some as yet unexplained fortuity.

Did you ever attempt to impose you will upon a nation?

In the event it may turn out to be not quite so easy as was often made to sound.

-- RH.
 
pilgrimshost
 
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 09:49 am
@Pythagorean,
So what of social norms and values that differ extremly around the world? I dont just mean in certain contries where the indoctrination of traditions are the main issue, Im talking about the less developed peoples, where cannibalism, sexual partnerships and how they view legal proceedings are staggeringly different.
 
perplexity
 
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 09:58 am
@Pythagorean,
The absolutist tends to assume that we all strive by default toward the same moral absolute except in our own quaint little way we have not quite got there, hence the notion of "backward" people: all you have to do is to turn up with a copy of the Holy Bible or a web link to Walter Russell and then all will eventually be well gain.

-- RH

.... on second thoughts, "all you have to do" appears to have understated the case. They also occasionally drop bombs, nothing quite like bloodshed and sundry mayhem when it comes to affecting opinion.
 
pilgrimshost
 
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 10:06 am
@Pythagorean,
But is that to do more with the abillity of our brain and imagination to accomidate ideas and social concepts (like a value or ''commandment'') rather than having a innate morality with in all humans that needs to be activiated at a given time?
 
perplexity
 
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 10:11 am
@pilgrimshost,
pilgrimshost wrote:
But is that to do more with the abillity of our brain and imagination to accomidate ideas and social concepts (like a value or ''commandment'') rather than having a innate morality with in all humans that needs to be activiated at a given time?


This tends to be an issue of age and maturity, how often you have already been let down by expecting some sort of innate morality to apply, as if of right.

Show me somebody who likes to cry "cynic" and I'll show you a fool who has not yet suffered as much.

--- RH.
 
 

 
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