Flaming flamer.

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Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 01:03 am
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;171739 wrote:
I like this, you give good full explanations and answers, I think you are great.
Could you do me a favour and PM me an example of flaming, for although I understand the concept I do not have any evidence to back my deduction up.

Thank you! A flame is pretty much just a personal attack, I think. And then maybe an inability to leave someone alone. If it looks like aggression is the real purpose, and not philosophy, then it might be flaming. (?)

---------- Post added 06-02-2010 at 02:09 AM ----------

sometime sun;171739 wrote:
. For I still am slightly swaying that some 'flaming' could be a form of respect. I have never really witnessed it between you and kennethamy but did notice he gives you more attention than the rest and I always thought of this as a respect, sure from what I did see he was not being complimentary but I just thought this was his way of trying to get more form you, that secretly he wanted and expected more form you and you to work harder for him and yourself.

I'd be lying if I said it felt this way. Maybe I was just his unapologetic polar opposite. We started long ago on the wrong foot, and maybe that was part of it. But I genuinely forgave him, and not just formally. I wanted to win him over, be a friend. Why not? A better time for all concerned. Perhaps he really didn't understand me. And maybe he earnestly saw me as a one of the bad guys who were debasing philosophy, tragically bewitched by language and bewitching others, or trying to. Maybe I was Coke to his Pepsi. He would have probably wanted to be Coke. Well, Pespi Is Pep. So I can adjust to less acid more sugar. I should probably be Pepsi these days. :detective:

---------- Post added 06-02-2010 at 02:12 AM ----------

sometime sun;171739 wrote:

'Wisdom makes a man's face to shine. If they aren't happy, they aren't as smart as they think they are...perhaps....' Reconstructo.
I love this, you may not need to know anything to be wise just so long as you know as little as you understand you don't know.


Thank you. I think that line is deep. It's just common sense, isn't it? That we want happiness. How can an unhappy man be wise? If wisdom is suffering, tis folly to be wise! A contradiction, of course. Sure, knowledge and suffering are old pals. Perhaps the trick is making the lead of knowledge into the gold of wisdom. And that line from the bible is a pointer on the way.. Nietzsche also made a big deal of this.

I personally think that the whole shebang, this life on earth, is about nothing but love and beauty, if one can find them. And philosophy is just a conceptual rudder to steer one toward them. I won't get into my favored paradoxes here, as they are elsewhere...but tanks.. :flowers:
 
Ding an Sich
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 06:02 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;171359 wrote:
I would just love to, and I am looking hard for an occasion to do so. So far, no luck!


I have done it before when individuals (such as Ken) point out that Ive made fallacious arguments, in which case I correct myself. Some do not like to admit to this, but let their lack of logic lead to their utter misapplication of philosophical matters. They cannot be helped if they do not wish to change.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 07:11 pm
@Reconstructo,
Originally Posted by sometime sun http://www.philosophyforum.com/images/PHBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif
'Wisdom makes a man's face to shine. If they aren't happy, they aren't as smart as they think they are...perhaps....' Reconstructo.
I love this, you may not need to know anything to be wise just so long as you know as little as you understand you don't know.

Reconstructo;172005 wrote:

Thank you. I think that line is deep. It's just common sense, isn't it? That we want happiness. How can an unhappy man be wise? If wisdom is suffering, tis folly to be wise! A contradiction, of course. Sure, knowledge and suffering are old pals. Perhaps the trick is making the lead of knowledge into the gold of wisdom. And that line from the bible is a pointer on the way.. Nietzsche also made a big deal of this.

I personally think that the whole shebang, this life on earth, is about nothing but love and beauty, if one can find them. And philosophy is just a conceptual rudder to steer one toward them. I won't get into my favored paradoxes here, as they are elsewhere...but tanks.. :flowers:

How about this;

I don't think what I know is what I don't think.

I wont think what I know is what I wont think.

I cant think what I know is what I cant think.
(Think about it)Smile
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 07:18 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;172313 wrote:

How about this;

I don't think what I know is what I don't think.

I wont think what I know is what I wont think.

I cant think what I know is what I cant think.
(Think about it)Smile


A mind twister! But I think they are all correct. Sounds right to me. Smile
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 07:24 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;172317 wrote:
A mind twister! But I think they are all correct. Sounds right to me. Smile

Could also be how one thinks not just what.

I don't think how I know is how I don't think.?
I think this has slightly more depth in of meaning.

I think this could also be;?
I do think how I know is how I do think?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 07:26 pm
@sometime sun,
As far as fallacious arguments go, that's a tough one. I'm leaning towards Plato these days. I think there are leaps of intuition. I feel that sometimes one is forced into the territory of metaphor. Are metaphors arguments? I don't think they are. T. S. Eliot ends a famous poem w/ "the fire and the rose are one." In my mind, there is deep philosophy here, but it's not the Anglo-American type. I have argued and still contend that abstractions are dead metaphors, at least generally. Mathematics is an exception to this. How many of our debates involve such slippery words as "truth"? And how often is it recognized that a word gets its meaning from an entire sentence and then from a paragraph and then from the lives of the writer & reader in their entirety.

While I agree that there is "no private language," I also suggest that there is no public language. We have something in the middle of these two poles. And this connects to objectivity as an ideal and not a real possibility.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 07:32 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;172321 wrote:
As far as fallacious arguments go, that's a tough one. I'm leaning towards Plato these days. I think there are leaps of intuition. I feel that sometimes one is forced into the territory of metaphor. Are metaphors arguments? I don't think they are. T. S. Eliot ends a famous poem w/ "the fire and the rose are one." In my mind, there is deep philosophy here, but it's not the Anglo-American type. I have argued and still contend that abstractions are dead metaphors, at least generally. Mathematics is an exception to this. How many of our debates involve such slippery words as "truth"? And how often is it recognized that a word gets its meaning from an entire sentence and then from a paragraph and then from the lives of the writer & reader in their entirety.

While I agree that there is "no private language," I also suggest that there is no public language. We have something in the middle of these two poles. And this connects to objectivity as an ideal and not a real possibility.

Give me anything T.S Eliot and I know I have been well fed.

Who said there was no private language? Have you ever met a schizophrenic?
I am being pedantic this may be true, it comes from Witt right?
Could you show me where please.

'And this connects to objectivity as an ideal and not a real possibility'
I like the sound of this, not sure I fully grasp, could you please expand.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 07:39 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;172325 wrote:
Give me anything T.S Eliot and I know I have been well fed.

Who said there was no private language? Have you ever met a schizophrenic?
I am being pedantic this may be true, it comes from Witt right?
Could you show me where please.

'And this connects to objectivity as an ideal and not a real possibility'
I like the sound of this, not sure I fully grasp, could you please expand.


As to private language, where do we get the words we think with? From a social context. I can't direct you to exactly where W said this. But it clicked for me. For me, thought and language are one. But my concept of thought is narrowed down for precision. So a schizo would be nearer to the private language, but still get many of his/her words/universals from socialization.

As to objectivity, what is it? For we all experience life within a body, and gather information through our senses. Our mind does much structuring of this information automatically. I suggest that objectivity is grounded in language. It's an ideal. It doesn't really exist. We strive toward less personal more universal truth, for various reasons. To transcend the small self or just for utility, to see nature with less bias, the better to manipulate it. But do we not remain embodied, dependent on sensation that is private?Smile
 
 

 
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