What do you think about 'hope'???

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Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 12:50 am
This word along with plenty others such as faith, believe to me are meaningless as they hold a great power of doubt. Personally I do not believe in hope or any other similar words and for the most part have destroyed them from my vocabulary because of its psychological effects that I have seen it do.
When somebody hopes for something they, usually subconsciously, imply that they're is the probability of failure. I live my life without these terms as there is nothing that doesn't go my way. When I say that I want something, I always find the way to get it without infringing any harm on anyone. It such an easy concept for me to deal with as it gives us really great power on our future. What do you guys think of this? If I should clarify something please let me know.
 
Soul Brother
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 05:42 am
@tkdboy 14,
So are you to say that you have never experienced any level of uncertainty regarding the probability of failure of a given sate of affairs? How are you to be certain that when you start your car to go to work that the ECU in your car will not fail resulting in detonation and catastrophic engine failure? or how are you to be certain that the plane you catch will not crash into to the ground? as you would have seen it does happen. Such things go to show that there are certain things that are part of every day life that are completely out of your control. Here in Australia the situation with Queensland Health's poor handling of the transition to the new payroll system has gone so bad that thousands of nurses have not being paid, some for up to six weeks! sure these nurses would love to get they're pay, but the fact is that it is not up to them. The resent volcano eruptions in Iceland caused thousands of flights to be cancelled all throughout Europe, and sure these people would have loved to fly back home instead of being stranded at the airport for days, but again the fact of the matter is that such things are completely out of they're control.

You say that when somebody hopes for something they subconsciously imply that there is a probability of failure, but this is because there is probability for failure, there is always a chance of failure involved with systems who's constituents are dependent on the actions of parties separate from that of the individual's, and the fact is that such things are part of every day societal life. In fact the only things that do not fail are the universal laws of nature. So to say that there is nothing that has never gone your way would be a literal lie as such a thing would be almost impossible as you would have to spend your whole life inside some sort of quarantine where you have no connection to the outside world, and even then you would have to simply hope you do not develop cancer.

You can certainly live through your entire life eliminating or avoiding situations where the outcome is not in your complete control thereby reducing the chance of failure, but even if you could avoid all such situations, as I said you would still have to hope that you do not develop disease. Besides living a life where you do not take any such risks for the pure reason of avoiding the emotional suffering that comes with disappointment would be a life of opportunities well waisted. You would be living your life like a fragile egg wrapped in cotton wool.

Is your shell really that thin that you cannot cope with a little disappointment?
 
Khethil
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 06:10 am
@tkdboy 14,
I would agree - hope cannot be *completely* avoided.
 
tkdboy 14
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 06:58 am
@Soul Brother,
Soul Brother;169875 wrote:
So are you to say that you have never experienced any level of uncertainty regarding the probability of failure of a given sate of affairs? How are you to be certain that when you start your car to go to work that the ECU in your car will not fail resulting in detonation and catastrophic engine failure? or how are you to be certain that the plane you catch will not crash into to the ground? as you would have seen it does happen. Such things go to show that there are certain things that are part of every day life that are completely out of your control. Here in Australia the situation with Queensland Health's poor handling of the transition to the new payroll system has gone so bad that thousands of nurses have not being paid, some for up to six weeks! sure these nurses would love to get they're pay, but the fact is that it is not up to them. The resent volcano eruptions in Iceland caused thousands of flights to be cancelled all throughout Europe, and sure these people would have loved to fly back home instead of being stranded at the airport for days, but again the fact of the matter is that such things are completely out of they're control.

You say that when somebody hopes for something they subconsciously imply that there is a probability of failure, but this is because there is probability for failure, there is always a chance of failure involved with systems who's constituents are dependent on the actions of parties separate from that of the individual's, and the fact is that such things are part of every day societal life. In fact the only things that do not fail are the universal laws of nature. So to say that there is nothing that has never gone your way would be a literal lie as such a thing would be almost impossible as you would have to spend your whole life inside some sort of quarantine where you have no connection to the outside world, and even then you would have to simply hope you do not develop cancer.

You can certainly live through your entire life eliminating or avoiding situations where the outcome is not in your complete control thereby reducing the chance of failure, but even if you could avoid all such situations, as I said you would still have to hope that you do not develop disease. Besides living a life where you do not take any such risks for the pure reason of avoiding the emotional suffering that comes with disappointment would be a life of opportunities well waisted. You would be living your life like a fragile egg wrapped in cotton wool.

Is your shell really that thin that you cannot cope with a little disappointment?


I guess I need a little more explanation. I do not live my life in a manner that can be classified closely to anything of a "quarantine". That is actually funny to me as my life is full exciting and well dangerous events that are seen as dangerous such as martial arts, parkour, and even things such as driving across country. Anyways maybe what I really implied, not in my case, is that most people live their lives too hopeful for things to happen and not enough willing to make things happen, see what I mean now? Most of the time it is not about not being able to cope with a little disappointment, rather being able to make that disappointment part of the process of success.
 
platorepublic
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 07:01 am
@tkdboy 14,
I think hope is beautiful. It is personified by a glowing floating beast surrounded by long strips of dancing white silky cloth.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 07:10 am
@tkdboy 14,
tkdboy_14;169444 wrote:
This word along with plenty others such as faith, believe to me are meaningless .


How could that possibly be? If you turn to any English dictionary you will find definitions for all those terms. You must be mistaken.
 
Twirlip
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 07:46 am
@tkdboy 14,
tkdboy_14;169444 wrote:
[...] there is nothing that doesn't go my way. When I say that I want something, I always find the way to get it without infringing any harm on anyone.

I'm intrigued as to what enables you to do this. If you could bottle it (perhaps by writing a self-help book), you could make a fortune!
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 01:19 pm
@tkdboy 14,
Imo "hope" is the driving force of society, of humans, of humanity. If we didn't have hope, but only pessemism, we wouldn't reach very far, we wouldn't take any chances, and nothing would evolve.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 01:23 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;170067 wrote:
Imo "hope" is the driving force of society, of humans, of humanity. If we didn't have hope, but only pessemism, we wouldn't reach very far, we wouldn't take any chances, and nothing would evolve.

Excellent post, Hex. I agree.
 
tkdboy 14
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 05:30 pm
@Reconstructo,
thank you guys for all your posts! i appreciate every idea and will think about this for some time now to see what i come up with! THANKS
 
mister kitten
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 05:51 pm
@tkdboy 14,
Camus says hope limits freedom.

I say hope is okay.
I'm more of a wisher
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 08:17 pm
@tkdboy 14,
tkdboy_14;169444 wrote:
This word along with plenty others such as faith, believe to me are meaningless as they hold a great power of doubt. Personally I do not believe in hope or any other similar words and for the most part have destroyed them from my vocabulary because of its psychological effects that I have seen it do.
When somebody hopes for something they, usually subconsciously, imply that they're is the probability of failure. I live my life without these terms as there is nothing that doesn't go my way. When I say that I want something, I always find the way to get it without infringing any harm on anyone. It such an easy concept for me to deal with as it gives us really great power on our future. What do you guys think of this? If I should clarify something please let me know.


I agree with you that hope can be a symptom of a neurosis, or that at least, can be seen as something of an evasion from effort, but I do not see how hope couldn't be a faculty for the opposite.

If one has no control over a situation, but is still affected by it, this person is certainly much stronger in will to be hopeful as opposed to cynical, or pessimistic. However, if one can become involved in the issue or problem or situation, and has something to contribute, that is, if he has something to say, a hopeful person is much more beneficial. Sometimes hope can drive people to become involved, however I do not think that hope is the word to use for those who decide they have nothing to say. Perhaps a certain level of maturity and acceptance compels them to remain silent, thinking something along the lines of silence is the noblest of mercies, and then wait for nothing, as nothing will happen, but also I think this is rarely the case.

But it is wrong to assume that hope is something we have control of, and when this hope occurs uncontrollably it tends to be a 'better' kind of hope than a forced hope. Hope is extraneous of what is heartfelt, it sort of emerges, it's there, but not intentionally, and therefore I kind of find it disagreeable to use the word quite like in the context you're using it in where it necessarily has cognitive consequences, but plays no role in being a rational one. Better to me, to look at the way hope can be as opposed to how hope is in certain situations and to generalize those situations into an absolute wherein hope is simply wrong.

And to me this opens up a door for what the meaning of hope is. It stems from this very attitude, that we value what can or could be the case as opposed to referring our generalizations, values, principles, (etc.) from simply what is the case, and this is the problem I have with your argument, because it tries to assert that you've transcended hope, yet the attitude behind it contradicts such a thing.

If not hope, what is going to take its place?
 
tkdboy 14
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 12:19 am
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401;170232 wrote:
I agree with you that hope can be a symptom of a neurosis, or that at least, can be seen as something of an evasion from effort, but I do not see how hope couldn't be a faculty for the opposite.

If one has no control over a situation, but is still affected by it, this person is certainly much stronger in will to be hopeful as opposed to cynical, or pessimistic. However, if one can become involved in the issue or problem or situation, and has something to contribute, that is, if he has something to say, a hopeful person is much more beneficial. Sometimes hope can drive people to become involved, however I do not think that hope is the word to use for those who decide they have nothing to say. Perhaps a certain level of maturity and acceptance compels them to remain silent, thinking something along the lines of silence is the noblest of mercies, and then wait for nothing, as nothing will happen, but also I think this is rarely the case.

But it is wrong to assume that hope is something we have control of, and when this hope occurs uncontrollably it tends to be a 'better' kind of hope than a forced hope. Hope is extraneous of what is heartfelt, it sort of emerges, it's there, but not intentionally, and therefore I kind of find it disagreeable to use the word quite like in the context you're using it in where it necessarily has cognitive consequences, but plays no role in being a rational one. Better to me, to look at the way hope can be as opposed to how hope is in certain situations and to generalize those situations into an absolute wherein hope is simply wrong.

And to me this opens up a door for what the meaning of hope is. It stems from this very attitude, that we value what can or could be the case as opposed to referring our generalizations, values, principles, (etc.) from simply what is the case, and this is the problem I have with your argument, because it tries to assert that you've transcended hope, yet the attitude behind it contradicts such a thing.

If not hope, what is going to take its place?


Thank you for your thrilling response! I will take everything to heart and think about it as much as possible to see how I feel after. Anyways, in regards to your question, I think that if not hope, nothing takes its place. I just really wanted to show how I think words as such usually, as I have noticed in the past, make people work less for that they hope for. I still need to clarify everything in my mind which might take a while but I appreciate the posts and any further ones. Smile
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 01:23 am
@tkdboy 14,
I found it interesting in a book i recently read (The Lucifer Principle - Howard Bloom) the author cited several psychological studies showing that the quickest way to make someone suicidal is to remove hope. Even in hopeless situations, people manufacture things to hope for. It is how humanity survives suffering and hardship. It is a psychological necessity.
 
Soul Brother
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 01:39 am
@tkdboy 14,
tkdboy_14;170162 wrote:
thank you guys for all your posts! i appreciate every idea and will think about this for some time now to see what i come up with! THANKS


tkdboy_14;170263 wrote:
Thank you for your thrilling response! I will take everything to heart and think about it as much as possible to see how I feel after. Anyways, in regards to your question, I think that if not hope, nothing takes its place. I just really wanted to show how I think words as such usually, as I have noticed in the past, make people work less for that they hope for. I still need to clarify everything in my mind which might take a while but I appreciate the posts and any further ones. Smile


It is great to hear that you have the ability to take such antisethis that contrast greatly to your original proposition but you can still take it to hart and consider the newly proposed views. You should be proud that you can be so open minded to opposing suggestion rather than blindly and stubbornly rejecting a true and correct proposition purely to retain your pride, after all not every one can do this. Good on you.

---------- Post added 05-29-2010 at 06:01 PM ----------

GoshisDead;170270 wrote:
I found it interesting in a book i recently read (The Lucifer Principle - Howard Bloom) the author cited several psychological studies showing that the quickest way to make someone suicidal is to remove hope. Even in hopeless situations, people manufacture things to hope for. It is how humanity survives suffering and hardship. It is a psychological necessity.


This is very true. hope is a crucial psychological uplift when in the face of danger or fighting for survival. you hear many stories of people that when lost in the wild the thought would take over of having no chance of survival when all hope was lost and they would feel vulnerable and powerless and they would feel like simply giving up, however when they kept hope they felt almost compelled to survive and it gave them a psychological boost to keep focus to not give up and come out alive. It is almost as if hope has a direct effect on the persons will.
 
josh0335
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 02:07 am
@tkdboy 14,
"Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness."

'The Architect', The Matrix Reloaded
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 02:16 am
@tkdboy 14,
What is delusive about hope? Can't a hope be well-founded? Suppose I hope to go to medical school next fall, and I do so because there is an excellent chance of my being accepted and of my getting money to do so. What is supposed to be delusive about that? Just because some hopes are delusive, that does not mean all are. A non-delusive hope is often called an "expectation". Maybe that is why all hopes are thought to be delusive, since if they are not, we call them "expectations".
 
Twirlip
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 05:29 am
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead;170270 wrote:
I found it interesting in a book i recently read (The Lucifer Principle - Howard Bloom) the author cited several psychological studies showing that the quickest way to make someone suicidal is to remove hope.

I take it they didn't perform experiments to make people suicidal! I'd be quite interested to learn something about what these psychological studies were. Do you have some references from the book?
 
prothero
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 12:52 pm
@tkdboy 14,
Quote:

It is a wicked thing to deprive men of their hope"

Winston Churchill
 
wayne
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 02:23 pm
@tkdboy 14,
I hope the road ahead remains passable, but I think I will carry my trusty shovel along, just in case.
 
 

 
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