I can't stand people...sometimes...

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Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 10:22 am
I have to vent.

This is probably not the appropriate forum, and this is probably not the appropriate message to post on the internet for all to see.

But I seriously, every day it seems, have to repress negative emotions ranging from simple distaste to utter disgust with friends, family, coworkers, or strangers.

Some of you must share these same observations, at least sometimes.

My father communicates to me on one level, and that is forwarding me right-wing fan mail, aka Obama hate mail - mixed with praise Jesus hogwash. If I make any reply, it is ignored. No matter how detailed, or vague and short, I am intellectually brushed off his shoulder as if I was dirt. As if, my opinion, since I am a 24 year old atheist "know-it-all", isn't worth discussing - but his xenophobic, compartmentalized one is.

As another case, take my friend from work. Not to be mean, but, he's 31 and a couple of years ago got his GED, has a 19 year old girlfriend, whom he is having a baby with near their one year anniversary (they've already moved in together). This guy thinks that, A) A baby is no big deal, and uses no contraceptives and B) He will buy a house next year...

Where do I work? Mr. Jim's Pizza. I deliver pizza, and get paid minimum wage. This guy makes less money than me, and spends it constantly going out to eat, buying movies, etc. With all that background you must have some opinion of him, and half the time I say something to try to plant seeds in his head, or spark discussion, I am also scoffed at as if I am weird, or take things too seriously and need to "chill out."

Now, on the opposite side of the spectrum, you have my two "close" friends, who are my age, who went to school with me, and who both make more money than me. Similar to work friend, and my father, the only thing they can discuss is television. I don't watch it. With anybody I know, when I attempt to talk about things I think about (philosophical, political, historical, whichever) it is "boring" to all of them. What drives me, makes me read till 5 in the morning or later, boooooooores everybody else. What bores me, TV, consumerism, abercrombie and white rim sunglasses, shallow pleasures, is all that drives them.

I need some outlet for discussion, because I talk to myself way too often, and I suppose that is why I love this forum...but...is it healthy to have to rely on this grey combination of electronics for intellectual socializing?

And do any of you have friends or family to which you can relate with mine? Thanks for readin'!
 
Jebediah
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 10:34 am
@bmcreider,
Your parents raised you, but looking for affirmation from them doesn't always work out.

One other thing that stands out about your post is that you talk about how they have no interest in philosophical issues--but then admit that you are bored by regular fun stuff. Both seem a bit narrow to me. I don't see why you can't enjoy some tv shows and also enjoy philosophy. Perhaps you are holding yourself back in some way.
 
bmcreider
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 10:43 am
@bmcreider,
I have fun learning, and thus I read. Some sitcom supported by advertising will teach you very little compared to a good book or essay.

It's not like I have never watched TV, or never find an episode of Star Trek TNG to watch with my g/f, but, this is ALL the people I know do.

They never pick up a book. They never read more than a paragraph of anything, they don't have the attention span.

Sorry but I will disagree with you here Jebediah, as I suppose I shouldn't seek affirmation on a forum either, but I will not dumb myself down just to fit in - I want to know if any of you have advice for getting these people to start enjoying learning.
 
VideCorSpoon
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 01:45 pm
@bmcreider,
 
platorepublic
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 02:03 pm
@bmcreider,
bmcreider;161762 wrote:
I have to vent.

This is probably not the appropriate forum, and this is probably not the appropriate message to post on the internet for all to see.

But I seriously, every day it seems, have to repress negative emotions ranging from simple distaste to utter disgust with friends, family, coworkers, or strangers.

Some of you must share these same observations, at least sometimes.

My father communicates to me on one level, and that is forwarding me right-wing fan mail, aka Obama hate mail - mixed with praise Jesus hogwash. If I make any reply, it is ignored. No matter how detailed, or vague and short, I am intellectually brushed off his shoulder as if I was dirt. As if, my opinion, since I am a 24 year old atheist "know-it-all", isn't worth discussing - but his xenophobic, compartmentalized one is.

As another case, take my friend from work. Not to be mean, but, he's 31 and a couple of years ago got his GED, has a 19 year old girlfriend, whom he is having a baby with near their one year anniversary (they've already moved in together). This guy thinks that, A) A baby is no big deal, and uses no contraceptives and B) He will buy a house next year...

Where do I work? Mr. Jim's Pizza. I deliver pizza, and get paid minimum wage. This guy makes less money than me, and spends it constantly going out to eat, buying movies, etc. With all that background you must have some opinion of him, and half the time I say something to try to plant seeds in his head, or spark discussion, I am also scoffed at as if I am weird, or take things too seriously and need to "chill out."

Now, on the opposite side of the spectrum, you have my two "close" friends, who are my age, who went to school with me, and who both make more money than me. Similar to work friend, and my father, the only thing they can discuss is television. I don't watch it. With anybody I know, when I attempt to talk about things I think about (philosophical, political, historical, whichever) it is "boring" to all of them. What drives me, makes me read till 5 in the morning or later, boooooooores everybody else. What bores me, TV, consumerism, abercrombie and white rim sunglasses, shallow pleasures, is all that drives them.

I need some outlet for discussion, because I talk to myself way too often, and I suppose that is why I love this forum...but...is it healthy to have to rely on this grey combination of electronics for intellectual socializing?

And do any of you have friends or family to which you can relate with mine? Thanks for readin'!

Haha nice. Well for me:

(i) Family = screw it, I am leaving! I had enough. Minimal contact leading to no contact. Too much poor history, absolutely no love, absolutely no positive reasons to see each other any more.

(ii) Friends = on an off, sometimes good, sometimes bad. Philosophically bad. Otherwise good. Best to have none, but it could be lonely sometimes because we are not perfect, so we have to have some friends.

There you go. Smile
 
bmcreider
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 02:15 pm
@bmcreider,
Well I try to watch myself to make sure I don't commit any of the same "crimes" that a zealot might. I do try to relate things to my friend from work, and being friends with him as helped me to better understand "people" and forced me to hold my tongue. He will say some of the most off the wall racist things, or talk about a particular political topic (rarely - very rarely) and he will be so off the mark, IMHO, that I just let it slide.

I want my friends to ask questions, but I fear my questioning drives them towards hatred of questioning. As in the case of my close friend, and girlfriend, who are or were full time students, they no longer learn because they never learned to on their own or without some grade based objective. I do not venture into territories I know will peak no interest, but I have managed (once, recently even) to get my work friend to ask me about my thoughts on retirement...and I was able to bring up social security obligations, baby boomers, wall street, but only in quick snips - otherwise he zones out.

Rarely, I have achieved similar conversations with my close friends; the occasions where they actually are engaged in conversation for five minutes. Most of the time, though, the conversation is about girls this or that, television, cars, sports, whatever that happens in mass media that doesn't matter in reality is discussed. That is normal.

What I want to do, and try to do, and not just preach to a choir on philosophy forum where I know people are smart already, is to introduce learning to those who abstain from it now - the people who get sucked into TV and BS because of it's 30 seconds of sensory stimulation and ease of boredom.

Does that put me on a moral high horse? I hope not. I don't think these people are "idiots" and they all have decent motivations.

It may help to understand in the case of my closest friend, I have known him 20 years, and his parents immigrated from Jordan, and are Palestinian. He has been to Jordan several times, is a Muslim, graduated #4 or so in our class, perfect grades, good job, yadda yadda...

You would think we might have more discussions about our culture, his parents', the clash of the two, resources that we count on from his part of the world, etc...guess not...
 
platorepublic
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 02:24 pm
@bmcreider,
bmcreider;161827 wrote:
Well I try to watch myself to make sure I don't commit any of the same "crimes" that a zealot might. I do try to relate things to my friend from work, and being friends with him as helped me to better understand "people" and forced me to hold my tongue. He will say some of the most off the wall racist things, or talk about a particular political topic (rarely - very rarely) and he will be so off the mark, IMHO, that I just let it slide.

I want my friends to ask questions, but I fear my questioning drives them towards hatred of questioning. As in the case of my close friend, and girlfriend, who are or were full time students, they no longer learn because they never learned to on their own or without some grade based objective. I do not venture into territories I know will peak no interest, but I have managed (once, recently even) to get my work friend to ask me about my thoughts on retirement...and I was able to bring up social security obligations, baby boomers, wall street, but only in quick snips - otherwise he zones out.

Rarely, I have achieved similar conversations with my close friends; the occasions where they actually are engaged in conversation for five minutes. Most of the time, though, the conversation is about girls this or that, television, cars, sports, whatever that happens in mass media that doesn't matter in reality is discussed. That is normal.

What I want to do, and try to do, and not just preach to a choir on philosophy forum where I know people are smart already, is to introduce learning to those who abstain from it now - the people who get sucked into TV and BS because of it's 30 seconds of sensory stimulation and ease of boredom.

Does that put me on a moral high horse? I hope not. I don't think these people are "idiots" and they all have decent motivations.

It may help to understand in the case of my closest friend, I have known him 20 years, and his parents immigrated from Jordan, and are Palestinian. He has been to Jordan several times, is a Muslim, graduated #4 or so in our class, perfect grades, good job, yadda yadda...

You would think we might have more discussions about our culture, his parents, the clash of the two, resources that we count on from his part of the world, etc...guess not...

Hmmm... well let's just say you are definitely meeting the wrong people. Seriously, my advice is that ditch all your current friends once and for all and go meet some new people.

I think most of the people I come into contact with are usually morally similar to me, or even higher. I usually fall out quite quickly with those who I feel don't resonate with me morally, physically, emotionally, mentally, intelligently, etc etc. Which means very little friends for me.

But that's okay - most of my friends are loyal. And we are on and off. We give each other time to chill out and do our own things. Most of the things we do are usually non-philosophical, at least not very deeply - we do things that we couldn't possibly do alone, like playing sports, or any leisurely activities. You know...

That's why you need to meet as many people as possible in the right places.

P.S. Go join a yoga class or something. It might be good for you. I've tried one class before, and it was actually really relaxing and stress-relieving, uh, but I just found out the friend I went with was such a perve Smile
 
bmcreider
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 02:28 pm
@bmcreider,
One friend I had/have, whom I would call an intellectual "equal," is also on/off as yours are. Right now I haven't spoken to him in a year or so, but we would have the most detailed conversations.

He recommended I ditch all my friends, too, as they were "dumb." But, I see potential in everyone I know. Everyone has the potential to learn, IMHO. But, some say, I am a glutton for punishment. Perhaps I am too easily exploited with idealistic aspirations Wink.
 
platorepublic
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 02:31 pm
@bmcreider,
bmcreider;161832 wrote:
One friend I had/have, whom I would call an intellectual "equal," is also on/off as yours are. Right now I haven't spoken to him in a year or so, but we would have the most detailed conversations.

He recommended I ditch all my friends, too, as they were "dumb." But, I see potential in everyone I know. Everyone has the potential to learn, IMHO. But, some say, I am a glutton for punishment. Perhaps I am too easily exploited with idealistic aspirations Wink.

Well it's not whether they are dumb or not. It's whether you guys resonate - clearly you guys don't resonate perfectly, but there is some resonance, hence you still consider them your friends.

The degree of resonance:

(i) perfect = yourself
(ii) almost perfect = your lover
(iii) imperfect but good enough that it's not destructive = friends

Otherwise, there is no point spending time with them. Really. You could concentrate all this energy into something more positive and loving.
 
VideCorSpoon
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 02:46 pm
@bmcreider,
bmcreider;161827 wrote:
Well I try to watch myself to make sure I don't commit any of the same "crimes" that a zealot might. I do try to relate things to my friend from work, and being friends with him as helped me to better understand "people" and forced me to hold my tongue. He will say some of the most off the wall racist things, or talk about a particular political topic (rarely - very rarely) and he will be so off the mark, IMHO, that I just let it slide.

I want my friends to ask questions, but I fear my questioning drives them towards hatred of questioning. As in the case of my close friend, and girlfriend, who are or were full time students, they no longer learn because they never learned to on their own or without some grade based objective. I do not venture into territories I know will peak no interest, but I have managed (once, recently even) to get my work friend to ask me about my thoughts on retirement...and I was able to bring up social security obligations, baby boomers, wall street, but only in quick snips - otherwise he zones out.

Rarely, I have achieved similar conversations with my close friends; the occasions where they actually are engaged in conversation for five minutes. Most of the time, though, the conversation is about girls this or that, television, cars, sports, whatever that happens in mass media that doesn't matter in reality is discussed. That is normal.

What I want to do, and try to do, and not just preach to a choir on philosophy forum where I know people are smart already, is to introduce learning to those who abstain from it now - the people who get sucked into TV and BS because of it's 30 seconds of sensory stimulation and ease of boredom.

Does that put me on a moral high horse? I hope not. I don't think these people are "idiots" and they all have decent motivations.

It may help to understand in the case of my closest friend, I have known him 20 years, and his parents immigrated from Jordan, and are Palestinian. He has been to Jordan several times, is a Muslim, graduated #4 or so in our class, perfect grades, good job, yadda yadda...

You would think we might have more discussions about our culture, his parents', the clash of the two, resources that we count on from his part of the world, etc...guess not...



I think as far as your friend at work goes, it may be the best thing to correct him in a subtle way so that he is aware that what he is saying is erroneous. And when I say subtle, its more as though you are working the issue through withAmercian Idol or Jersey Shore. Pluses and minuses I suppose.

As to your closest friend, I would think if anything, he would want to keep a low profile on his origins, religious identity, etc. Not because he wants to stay low, but to avoid forms of exoticism and so on. If I were him, I would like to be known more as John Smith your friend than John Smith, your fellow friend who is Muslim. But honestly, I don't know anything about your relationship with your friend, that's just a superficial take on it.
 
Khethil
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 03:32 pm
@bmcreider,
bmcreider;161762 wrote:
... My father communicates to me on one level, and that is forwarding me right-wing fan mail, aka Obama hate mail - mixed with praise Jesus hogwash.


I love this! Excellent way to describe a very vocal, very ubiquitous mindset in the U.S. these days. Uh, good luck with dealing with it. If you can find a way to not be upset or rattled by such folks, please let me know.

bmcreider;161762 wrote:
... he's 31 and a couple of years ago got his GED, has a 19 year old girlfriend, whom he is having a baby with near their one year anniversary (they've already moved in together). This guy thinks that, A) A baby is no big deal, and uses no contraceptives and B) He will buy a house next year...


Boy is he in for a shock. I can't know much given the details you're giving, but if the situation you're describing is the one I think it is, he's in for a rude awakening on a couple of fronts.

bmcreider;161762 wrote:
... the only thing they can discuss is television. I don't watch it. With anybody I know, when I attempt to talk about things I think about (philosophical, political, historical, whichever) it is "boring" to all of them. What drives me, makes me read till 5 in the morning or later, boooooooores everybody else. What bores me, TV, consumerism, abercrombie and white rim sunglasses, shallow pleasures, is all that drives them.


I hear ya - it's all so superficial, so materialistic and shallow feeling, isn't it. One needn't be always morose and absorbed in deep thought, but when there isn't any depth, this kind of talk hits me much like a barking dog; there's sound, just no substance.

There are a couple of possibilities. What strikes me as most-likely, is that you're at a point in your life where you're wanting to reach out on an intellectual/philosophical level. So, you'll want to find an outlet for this. In my life (I'm 47 now), I've probably had 3 friends with whom I could relate to in this fashion. Most people are much like my cat: "I'm warm", "I'm hungry", "Give me", "I want", "wow and "Oh Look! Cows!".

I believe that if we could talk voice, we'd likely have much more of a connection here. As it is, talking on forums like this one (and it is the best) is a fine outlet and may be as good as it gets. But take heart: You're not alone, and as likely as it is that you're finding us here, there's the distinct possibility that there are those like you that are near.

You'll change, as we all all do; let it happen - go with it. But for as long as you remain in this state, know that it's not aberrant, unusual or dysfunctional; you're feeling a need to reach out on a particular level, so do what you can to satisfy that.

Yea, I can identify; absolutly. All I can do is wish ya luck.

Thanks
 
platorepublic
 
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 03:42 pm
@bmcreider,
Thank God I am not associated with the United States in a substantial way? I dunno. It seems most of these crazy things ("very ubiquitous mindset", "so superficial, so materialistic and shallow feeling") come from United States.

It is common to find such "crazy things" in areas of low education coupled with the media portraying these "crazy things". I think. I mean you don't see this in Kenya.
 
bmcreider
 
Reply Sun 9 May, 2010 01:26 am
@bmcreider,
Khethil, I have taken it upon myself to reply in red-ink fashion to one or two of the forwarded dumbocracy newsletters I get - but, they are simply ignored. Other than mutual ignoring, I have no options. I suppose that happens.

My work friend, J, is a decent person. He just doesn't see the point in self-control. He's been in bar fights, plenty I am sure, jail visits here and there (I have gone to wait for him to get bail once, lol), obese (loves junk / fast food), etc...but he treats others, despite what he may say, better than he treats himself. That's probably where I feel I can relate, on some level.

I appreciate your reply, and I don't want to sound whiny. "No one was promised a rose garden." I suppose no one was promised Philosophy Forum or genius friends.

---------- Post added 05-09-2010 at 02:37 AM ----------

VideCorSpoon;161838 wrote:
And when I say subtle, its more as though you are working the issue through with him rather than just blatantly telling him this or that is wrong, or even more letting it slide. Thinking about it, people in general have a propensity to feel as though they are contributing to something, whatever that something may be. They want to be a part of the solution. But when it comes to blunt lecturing or correction, you get a substantially negative reaction.

LOL! It sounds like I'm waiting with bated anticipation for any sort of philosophically oriented bone to be thrown my way.

As to your closest friend, I would think if anything, he would want to keep a low profile on his origins, religious identity, etc. Not because he wants to stay low, but to avoid forms of exoticism and so on. If I were him, I would like to be known more as John Smith your friend than John Smith, your fellow friend who is Muslim. But honestly, I don't know anything about your relationship with your friend, that's just a superficial take on it.


The negative reaction advice is sound, for sure. I have just recently, as in, several months, tried to work that in, thus holding my tongue a lot these days and letting them show interest first. It's a tricky game, though. I get delusions of grandeur all the time thinking about ideas I want to expose people to.

Regarding TV, yes, I find good in it as well. Unfortunately, people's standards seem to be getting lower across the board, dumbing down, inflation, whatever you'd like to blame. It makes the good stuff stand out, yes, but, it's not a good thing that it gets, overall, worse. I could be full of it, though.

Regarding my close friend, we have had conversations before where social differences are brought to the table. But we've known each other a long time, and I have always known of his culture and religion. Not necessarily politically, but as an individual in relation to myself. I would surely hope he's not afraid to communicate with me, I think it may be he worries about "normal" things a successful guy would - credit score, Newsweek, Forbes, Call of Duty on the XBox, trying to sleep with women...etc...
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sun 9 May, 2010 05:11 pm
@bmcreider,
Where does 'I cant stand lonliness...sometimes...' fit in with this?
 
bmcreider
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 01:16 am
@bmcreider,
I suppose on the opposite end of the spectrum?

I think I can relate to what you're saying.
 
bmcreider
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 01:29 pm
@bmcreider,
Do you think all criticisms like this are some subconsciously derived projection mr. Sun?
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 06:45 pm
@bmcreider,
bmcreider;162471 wrote:
Do you think all criticisms like this are some subconsciously derived projection mr. Sun?

Not necessarily a criticism or subconscious but probably a derived projection somewhere in the mix.
I am well aware I am lonely and what lonely is, I spent long years away from people and the world and only had myself to accompany me.
I may never have been in jail but I have been in a prison most of my being.
I would bless the day I got sick of an over abundance of persons, players and peoples in my life.
Kiss the stars I would, could.
Instead I bless God.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 07:00 pm
@bmcreider,
bmcreider;161762 wrote:

I need some outlet for discussion, because I talk to myself way too often, and I suppose that is why I love this forum...but...is it healthy to have to rely on this grey combination of electronics for intellectual socializing?

And do any of you have friends or family to which you can relate with mine? Thanks for readin'!


I feel you, man. All I can say is that thinking can isolate one, unless one is lucky enough to find an equally thoughtful friend. Then, one has a friendship that is better than average, in my opinion, as it is grounded in the universal. Of course people evolve in different directions, and friends are replaced. It might just require some luck and some patience. Until just recently, I have never met someone quite as obsessed as I am w/ certain issues that seem to transcend chatter. Of course my friends who don't read have had to tolerate my expositions....and they have, because they are thoughtful types, else we wouldn't be friends. If they simply looked at me as weird, I couldn't waste my time on them. I can't help but feel that they would be wrong, and not me, in such an instance. That's just how it is, and it's a leap of faith I suppose.
 
Cortland
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 08:02 pm
@bmcreider,
I have a suggestion for your problem relating to your friends and TV, you should try watching shows (I know not everyone likes them but) south park or family guy. They are riddled with philosophical, political and social issues. You could discuss your ideas and such and relate them to the TV shows they love so much
 
 

 
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