Is racism or sexist or both combined unethical?

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Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 03:09 pm
E.g. not employing a person just because he is a gay Asian man.

Is that unethical?
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 03:18 pm
@platorepublic,
Depends what your ethic is.

In my ethics i would say yes it is unethical.

But is it unethical to not employ a retarded person when they might not be able to do the job well?

Where does ethics end and suitability start?

If you wanted a job in the KKK home office, would it be unethical for them to not hire you becuase you were gay, black etc?
 
etherguant
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 03:22 pm
@sometime sun,
I wouldn't say that's unethical just stupid as I would expect that person to be a hard worker with few attachments.
Stereo types wouldn't exist if there wasn't some truth to them.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 03:30 pm
@etherguant,
etherguant;156515 wrote:
I wouldn't say that's unethical just stupid as I would expect that person to be a hard worker with few attachments.
Stereo types wouldn't exist if there wasn't some truth to them.

Emphasis on SOME truth.
I have many lables to contend with in my life and i can tell you i am in no way sterio-typical.
Or perhaps that is just what a sterio-type would say?Smile
 
prothero
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 03:51 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;156513 wrote:
Depends what your ethic is.
In my ethics i would say yes it is unethical.
But is it unethical to not employ a retarded person when they might not be able to do the job well?
Where does ethics end and suitability start?
If you wanted a job in the KKK home office, would it be unethical for them to not hire you becuase you were gay, black etc?
Racism or sexism is not hiring for the sole reason of someones race, sex, sexual orientation, religion etc. It does not require that you do not examine their suitablity for that particular job in terms of qualifications, experience or attitudes otherwise; only that they be hired or not be hired based on some factor other than sex or race,etc.

So an atheist probably would not hired in a Christian organization or a black man for a KKK position. Institutions funded by public money are particularly scrutinized for discrimation in hiring, since they both serve and are funded by all citizens. Ballets legitimately do not hire the physically handicapped to dance and orchestras do not hire the tone deaf to play instruments, that is not unethical or legal discrimination it is suitiblity for that particular job.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 03:51 pm
@sometime sun,
Someone please make a distinction between rights and ethics.
 
amist
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 04:19 pm
@platorepublic,
platorepublic;156510 wrote:
E.g. not employing a person just because he is a gay Asian man.

Is that unethical?


Yes. Without qualification this is unethical.
 
etherguant
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 06:00 pm
@amist,
amist;156533 wrote:
Yes. Without qualification this is unethical.


Actually it would be many times more unethical to prevent the practice. Say some bum breaks into your house and start's eating your food. You remove him and exclaims since he is a dirty bum he has trouble acquiring what you have and there fore he should have access to what you have, you remove him of corse.

A business is no different, no one is entitled to a job and employers should be able to have a discriminating hiring policy if they wish.

Also say you want to hire your incompetent brother over say another white man, this is seen as reasonable. Yet to hire based on about the same genetic difference, a white person and an individual of any other race is somehow contradictory immoral. I see this process as both moral and and good idea.
 
prothero
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 06:38 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;156521 wrote:
Someone please make a distinction between rights and ethics.
I suppose it is unethical to deprive or deny a person their "rights". Then you have the question of what "rights" do people have? Unalienable rights endowed by a creator? or just the rights your society, culture or country of origin decides to give you? Or just the rights that you can defend sucessfully?
There are lots of different theories about rights.
 
amist
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 07:40 pm
@etherguant,
etherguant;156569 wrote:
Actually it would be many times more unethical to prevent the practice. Say some bum breaks into your house and start's eating your food. You remove him and exclaims since he is a dirty bum he has trouble acquiring what you have and there fore he should have access to what you have, you remove him of corse.

A business is no different, no one is entitled to a job and employers should be able to have a discriminating hiring policy if they wish.

Also say you want to hire your incompetent brother over say another white man, this is seen as reasonable. Yet to hire based on about the same genetic difference, a white person and an individual of any other race is somehow contradictory immoral. I see this process as both moral and and good idea.


The situation is that he was turned down solely because he was asian and gay. Things like this should not factor into the hiring process at all unless he's applying at a strip club or something, which probably can't be operating ethically in any case, but that's another debate.
 
platorepublic
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 12:18 am
@amist,
amist;156610 wrote:
The situation is that he was turned down solely because he was asian and gay. Things like this should not factor into the hiring process at all unless he's applying at a strip club or something, which probably can't be operating ethically in any case, but that's another debate.

What if he thought that the ethnicity and sexuality would affect the working environment etc just because he feels deep inside intuitively the ethnicity or sexuality is truly inferior (or superior so he is scared of hiring someone who is more powerful than he is).
 
Deckard
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 02:24 am
@platorepublic,
platorepublic;156510 wrote:
E.g. not employing a person just because he is a gay Asian man.

Is that unethical?


Is it unethical to not employ someone simply because they are a homophobic racist?
 
amist
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 02:32 am
@platorepublic,
Quote:
What if he thought that the ethnicity and sexuality would affect the working environment etc just because he feels deep inside intuitively the ethnicity or sexuality is truly inferior (or superior so he is scared of hiring someone who is more powerful than he is).


Then he just has bad information about how ethnicity and sexual orientation effect productivity. It's his moral duty to have good, well thought out reasons for his actions though, so that he can be sure that they are moral, and he has failed in this regard, so then therein lies the unethical nature of his decision.
 
platorepublic
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 07:14 am
@amist,
amist;156669 wrote:
Then he just has bad information about how ethnicity and sexual orientation effect productivity. It's his moral duty to have good, well thought out reasons for his actions though, so that he can be sure that they are moral, and he has failed in this regard, so then therein lies the unethical nature of his decision.

But perhaps he has done favour to the "victim" as his immorality allowed the "victim" to avoid such a person much faster than if he accepted him to do a job.
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 02:37 pm
@platorepublic,
platorepublic;156510 wrote:
E.g. not employing a person just because he is a gay Asian man.

Is that unethical?


It depends upon the job, though in most cases, it is unethical. An example of it being okay to not hire an asian man because he is an asian man would be if you are making a movie, and the part for which you are hiring is someone to play the part of a black woman, then not hiring him for being a man and for being asian is not inappropriate, as those things are relevant to the job. Him being gay, though, is not relevant to any job that does not involve sexual acts (real sexual acts, not ones in a pretend movie sort of way).

Basically, when hiring, one should only factor in things that are relevant to the job. If it is irrelevant to the job, then it should not be a consideration for the position, and it is immoral (as well as stupid) to use irrelevant characteristics when hiring someone. And this means, for the vast majority of jobs, gender, race, and sexual orientation are not things that should be considered when deciding whether to hire someone or not.
 
platorepublic
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 02:43 pm
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;156843 wrote:
It depends upon the job, though in most cases, it is unethical. An example of it being okay to not hire an asian man because he is an asian man would be if you are making a movie, and the part for which you are hiring is someone to play the part of a black woman, then not hiring him for being a man and for being asian is not inappropriate, as those things are relevant to the job. Him being gay, though, is not relevant to any job that does not involve sexual acts (real sexual acts, not ones in a pretend movie sort of way).

Basically, when hiring, one should only factor in things that are relevant to the job. If it is irrelevant to the job, then it should not be a consideration for the position, and it is immoral (as well as stupid) to use irrelevant characteristics when hiring someone. And this means, for the vast majority of jobs, gender, race, and sexual orientation are not things that should be considered when deciding whether to hire someone or not.

But that's like being a robot.

People do have preferences. Perhaps the boss is looking for more than just fitting the role perfectly - i.e. his preferred race and sexuality.
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 02:57 pm
@platorepublic,
platorepublic;156845 wrote:
Pyrrho;156843 wrote:
It depends upon the job, though in most cases, it is unethical. An example of it being okay to not hire an asian man because he is an asian man would be if you are making a movie, and the part for which you are hiring is someone to play the part of a black woman, then not hiring him for being a man and for being asian is not inappropriate, as those things are relevant to the job. Him being gay, though, is not relevant to any job that does not involve sexual acts (real sexual acts, not ones in a pretend movie sort of way).

Basically, when hiring, one should only factor in things that are relevant to the job. If it is irrelevant to the job, then it should not be a consideration for the position, and it is immoral (as well as stupid) to use irrelevant characteristics when hiring someone. And this means, for the vast majority of jobs, gender, race, and sexual orientation are not things that should be considered when deciding whether to hire someone or not.


But that's like being a robot.

People do have preferences. Perhaps the boss is looking for more than just fitting the role perfectly - i.e. his preferred race and sexuality.



Not being a bigot is like being a robot?

Do you think that people should all refuse to hire you due to your race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or some other such characteristic of yours, that has nothing whatsoever to do with your ability to do the job? Do you think that would be fair?
 
platorepublic
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 03:08 pm
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;156850 wrote:
Not being a bigot is like being a robot?

Do you think that people should all refuse to hire you due to your race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or some other such characteristic of yours, that has nothing whatsoever to do with your ability to do the job? Do you think that would be fair?

That would be fair, because it is a quick filter for me for who I should work for. I.e. that person who rejected me indicates that we won't get along in the long run anyway, so thanks for rejecting me.

I won't take it personally, cause "it will be soon that I rule the world anyway" is my mentality.

I guess not a lot of people has as much positivity and optimism as I do, which is perfect.
 
 

 
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