Prove yourself.

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Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 09:30 pm
Do you try to prove anything?

Are you trying to prove yourself or something else?

How do you prove yourself?

Would you prefer to be taken personally or professionally?
(Touch a heart or touch a mind?)

Do you think you are taken seriously?

Do you take yourself or the world seriously?

Do you take yourself seriously?

Do you think you are worth more interest, inquiry, inquest?
(Do you feel overlooked? unpublished or unappreciated?)

Is yourself worth your proof or others trust?
Do you ever feel unproven or untrusted?
How do you prove you are trustworthy?
How do you trust you are proofworthy?
(Are you made more 'real' by what you learn or what you teach?)

Are you a teacher without a class?
or
Are you a pupil without a teacher?

How do you convince yourself?
How are you convinced?
Who, what are you trying to convince?

Do you prove or disprove yourself?

(Answer one, some or all)
(Better still ask your own)
 
mister kitten
 
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 10:25 pm
@sometime sun,
Can one be his or her own teacher?

I am trying to prove myself. Prove myself to myself, first. Buy my own product, so to speak. And to the others...only family-mainly mia madre and my grandpa.

I think I proved myself tonight with the arrival of my yellow two belt.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 07:47 am
@sometime sun,
Would U a-prove of yourself ? Would U be proud of what U learned in Life ? Would it have been worth it ? Yes U can be y;r own teacher; but it's more fun to Learn together.

Viva Humanidad ! Ortega y Gasset...
 
Fido
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 08:39 am
@sometime sun,
I am trying to prove myself by finishing, running, a 5 K... At 56 I have come a long way, dropped about 35 pounds, getting good and fit, and I feel great... My wife will still be faster, so how I will prove myself to her is unanswered... Yet; I will never be happy with her if I cannot live without her...

As far as philosophy; it is mostly the result of learning, and if I am correct, or you accept what I accept is immaterial...The biggest single philosophical insight I had was equally the good fortune of having my wife, after a life of reading...That is: seeing every form as a relationship between people, and seeing every relationship as having a form...It is not a philosophy, but a tool, a lens trough which to see all of social reality...So, I will share it, but teaching it, or proving it is a whole nother matter...
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 05:55 pm
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;156225 wrote:
Can one be his or her own teacher?

I am trying to prove myself. Prove myself to myself, first. Buy my own product, so to speak. And to the others...only family-mainly mia madre and my grandpa.

I think I proved myself tonight with the arrival of my yellow two belt.

It is a peculiar thing to teach the self,
it kind of means there is a part of us with more knowledge or understanding than the rest of our parts.
I think one just need be a good listener and they become both a willing pupil and eager teacher,
listening is hard when you are constantly having your own thoughts sounding alarms and whistles.
What part of yourself will be reached? what part is reaching?
Just a fringe benefit when others have you before you have yourself.
You've reached me,
You are investigated and proved positive to me,
Now all one needs is self belief and the set is full.
Yes family are those of whom we run all our lives from whom hold all we need to be held and home.

Do you need medals to know you have conquered your own self and expectation?

You won the day the moment you put yourself to task.
Knew you had something to learn and something to prove.

You are already a winner.
Because you try.
Becuase you never give up.

---------- Post added 04-26-2010 at 01:04 AM ----------

Pepijn Sweep;156386 wrote:
Would U a-prove of yourself ? Would U be proud of what U learned in Life ? Would it have been worth it ? Yes U can be y;r own teacher; but it's more fun to Learn together.

Viva Humanidad ! Ortega y Gasset...

No i would not aprove myself.
I can and need to be better than today.
I know i am better than yesterday.
Not sure if this is pity or being a son o a bich?
Would i be proud of what i had learned in life?
Depends on the cost of the lesson.
Most of what i know and am aware of i would give up at a moments notice if i could make the lesson cost less.
I would choose the painless alternative.
Pain is horrid and dreadful.
It MUST be worth it.
It can NOT be worthless.
I wont let it.
All this pain for nothing?
No bloody way.
I will be better.
And i will prove it to God Himself.
Even before my own self.

Yes this is why i will after the summer if God allows me the time and continued presence be going back to school.

Talk about having a world to prove myself to.
Talk about a mountainous task ahead.
Talk about trying to reach heaven through the walls of the earth.
Talk about proof.

Do you need a degree to prove yourself to more than the world but to your self?

---------- Post added 04-26-2010 at 01:19 AM ----------

Fido;156410 wrote:
I am trying to prove myself by finishing, running, a 5 K... At 56 I have come a long way, dropped about 35 pounds, getting good and fit, and I feel great... My wife will still be faster, so how I will prove myself to her is unanswered... Yet; I will never be happy with her if I cannot live without her...

As far as philosophy; it is mostly the result of learning, and if I am correct, or you accept what I accept is immaterial...The biggest single philosophical insight I had was equally the good fortune of having my wife, after a life of reading...That is: seeing every form as a relationship between people, and seeing every relationship as having a form...It is not a philosophy, but a tool, a lens trough which to see all of social reality...So, I will share it, but teaching it, or proving it is a whole nother matter...

Do you need to be recognised to be proven?
Philosophy is a wicked misstress,
she never rewards you,
but punishes widely.
Philosophy is sado masochism for the soul.
Philosophy demands therefore proves circumspection.
Circumspection of the soul is hard work.

(Fido, you need to set her free by freeing yourself, free yourself by setting her free)
 
mister kitten
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 06:42 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;156199 wrote:

Are you a teacher without a class?
or
Are you a pupil without a teacher?




Everything teaches me. I teach those who listen.
I can be my own teacher. My imagination teaches me my imagination-and it doesn't stop there. It doesn't stop.
The student needs a teacher, whatever the teacher may be.

Does the teacher need a student?
Does the teacher need to be a student before teaching?
 
Fido
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 08:05 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;156565 wrote:
It is a peculiar thing to teach the self,
it kind of means there is a part of us with more knowledge or understanding than the rest of our parts.
I think one just need be a good listener and they become both a willing pupil and eager teacher,
listening is hard when you are constantly having your own thoughts sounding alarms and whistles.
What part of yourself will be reached? what part is reaching?
Just a fringe benefit when others have you before you have yourself.
You've reached me,
You are investigated and proved positive to me,
Now all one needs is self belief and the set is full.
Yes family are those of whom we run all our lives from whom hold all we need to be held and home.

Do you need medals to know you have conquered your own self and expectation?

You won the day the moment you put yourself to task.
Knew you had something to learn and something to prove.

You are already a winner.
Because you try.
Becuase you never give up.

---------- Post added 04-26-2010 at 01:04 AM ----------


No i would not aprove myself.
I can and need to be better than today.
I know i am better than yesterday.
Not sure if this is pity or being a son o a bich?
Would i be proud of what i had learned in life?
Depends on the cost of the lesson.
Most of what i know and am aware of i would give up at a moments notice if i could make the lesson cost less.
I would choose the painless alternative.
Pain is horrid and dreadful.
It MUST be worth it.
It can NOT be worthless.
I wont let it.
All this pain for nothing?
No bloody way.
I will be better.
And i will prove it to God Himself.
Even before my own self.

Yes this is why i will after the summer if God allows me the time and continued presence be going back to school.

Talk about having a world to prove myself to.
Talk about a mountainous task ahead.
Talk about trying to reach heaven through the walls of the earth.
Talk about proof.

Do you need a degree to prove yourself to more than the world but to your self?

---------- Post added 04-26-2010 at 01:19 AM ----------


Do you need to be recognised to be proven?
Philosophy is a wicked misstress,
she never rewards you,
but punishes widely.
Philosophy is sado masochism for the soul.
Philosophy demands therefore proves circumspection.
Circumspection of the soul is hard work.

(Fido, you need to set her free by freeing yourself, free yourself by setting her free)

Philosophy is not a mistress... Such talk is cant, meaningless...I am a back door philosopher...I came into it because all my life I thought I was retarded because I did not learn so easily as others, but I loved to know because it helped me to feel equal, so I learned on many subjects until I found, without it being an aim, ever, that what I was doing, the thoughts I was thinking, the questions I was trying to ask with reason were philosophy...
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 11:58 am
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;156591 wrote:
Everything teaches me. I teach those who listen.
I can be my own teacher. My imagination teaches me my imagination-and it doesn't stop there. It doesn't stop.
The student needs a teacher, whatever the teacher may be.

Does the teacher need a student?
Does the teacher need to be a student before teaching?

So you are a good listener and a good sound.
It is when my imagination stops that i get sad and maudlin depressed and lost, but then becuase of my imagination i can become a mania and a storm and often confused.
I wonder if the imagination is our earnings or our dues, what we get or what we give? Teach or learn?
Can you teach your imagination or is it independant?
Tamed or wild?
Self fulfilled by a fulfilling self.
To be full is to fill.
To fill is to be full.
The student needs to trust that he is the teacher just as the teacher needs to trust he is the student.
The teacher may not need an external student but needs to know he has an internal one also.

---------- Post added 04-26-2010 at 07:32 PM ----------

Fido;156613 wrote:
Philosophy is not a mistress... Such talk is cant, meaningless...I am a back door philosopher...I came into it because all my life I thought I was retarded because I did not learn so easily as others, but I loved to know because it helped me to feel equal, so I learned on many subjects until I found, without it being an aim, ever, that what I was doing, the thoughts I was thinking, the questions I was trying to ask with reason were philosophy...

But philosohpy does not more so set free than imprison one,
I think you just came to know the name of your prison.
But i will say that i 'got into it' because it was in me.
I had the time and the desire to ponder and propose.
I had no other choice else it would have destroyed me.
Philosophers are highly self destructive, always tearing down and forgetting to rebuild.
I suppose i have tried to free myself from this prison sickness of philosophy by painting the walls of my cell and trying out new drugs.
All my life i ran from the prison until one day i thought this is where i am supposed to be.
You cannot escape your self,
fated to be me?
Until i realised the bigger crime would be to not spend some time reading the law and trying to pass new ones.
It came upon me that just because i was trapped did not mean i was still not in possession of a key.
Yes i think philosophers are retarded (the best ones at least) even though philosophy is not the condition.
Philosopphy is the cure to the philosophers condition.
You say it made you feel equal, are you sure it did not make you balanced? for i have come to see also that the 'best' philosophers either have a superiority or inferiority complex, always with our complexes.
The more severe the complex the more severe the philosopher.
We have something to cure i think and no doctor has ever been able to offer us the medicine that philosophy gives us.
But the condition is still known as 'Philosopher'.
Yes i have no aims either, i find this highly cathartic and i can find rest when i have had a good days philosophizing.
Rest is not my aim, if anything awareness is.
But will say that when someone answers one (just one) of my questions i do find a measure of healing, i even get a little high.
Philosoppher be thy addiction philosophy.
The cure to the philosopher is to make himself more sick.

(Did you see the 'Philosophers philosophy' thread? some similar themes)
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 12:44 pm
@mister kitten,
Someone needs to be called Teacher. Hopefully we choose a good One.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 12:54 pm
@sometime sun,
Like that George Carlin line that I always wanted to be somebody.... I should have been more specific... A lot of times philosophers want to be somebody... They want to leave their mark, or make a contribution and that is a terribly difficult task that every day grows more difficult, since as we learn more, to add significantly to what we know grows more difficult... And philosophers give up the most essential natural need, the need to breed to have a share of recognition, and it makes fools of them; because they think, and are rational, and because they are in this fashion unbalanced they are no good for family life anyway... Few enough of philosophers ever passed on their genes...Think of how many genes the priests and monks of Europe may have passed on when the church was the only church, and how far they may have raised the IQ of the whole area... Yet, the smartest were too smart to figure out where to put their life to pass their life on, along with their intelligence... So what does this make of philosophers but life's losers, and what is our gain for having them??? The really intractable problems of life are moral problems that are in no sense susceptible to logic, and the reason that philosophers fail at life and love is because they are too logical, over logical, when logic is not the answer...Philosophers should perhaps stick to physics and leave moral reality to the artists...
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 04:41 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;156783 wrote:
Someone needs to be called Teacher. Hopefully we choose a good One.

Hopefully a better one chooses us.
I wonder why so many cant dont or wont just choose them selves?
The seat of all wisdom is our own capacity to understand.
Trust thy self with own education?
Only learn what one wants to know?
Only trust what others dont know you know?
The best teacher will show us the worth of what we dont care to know.
The best teacher knows how to explain things we would have missed were it not for their insistence and patience.
The best teacher is never yourself?

---------- Post added 04-27-2010 at 12:07 AM ----------

Fido;156791 wrote:
Like that George Carlin line that I always wanted to be somebody.... I should have been more specific... A lot of times philosophers want to be somebody... They want to leave their mark, or make a contribution and that is a terribly difficult task that every day grows more difficult, since as we learn more, to add significantly to what we know grows more difficult... And philosophers give up the most essential natural need, the need to breed to have a share of recognition, and it makes fools of them; because they think, and are rational, and because they are in this fashion unbalanced they are no good for family life anyway... Few enough of philosophers ever passed on their genes...Think of how many genes the priests and monks of Europe may have passed on when the church was the only church, and how far they may have raised the IQ of the whole area... Yet, the smartest were too smart to figure out where to put their life to pass their life on, along with their intelligence... So what does this make of philosophers but life's losers, and what is our gain for having them??? The really intractable problems of life are moral problems that are in no sense susceptible to logic, and the reason that philosophers fail at life and love is because they are too logical, over logical, when logic is not the answer...Philosophers should perhaps stick to physics and leave moral reality to the artists...

If i wanted to be somebody... i should have been more explicit.
Alot of the time philosophers want to be somebody because they cant find anyone else out there to make them real.
We can inevitably only really prove our own appreciation because someone out there has already beaten you to the punch line.
This is why comedy at the moment is so piss poor because we have already been told the joke.
Or the joke holds no investigation?
If a philosopher lives to philosophize and not conquer or convince they might be alot more happy or content with their condition.
For the journey not for the finality.
We all might be alot more happy content if we did not think we had to prove ourselves, and as the general philosopher as you say is peopleless they only have themselves to prove themselves to, even harder task because it is very hard to self congratulate and acctualy feel you have won at something.
Do you feel bigger once you have understood something or do you feel bigger when you have proved it to someone?
Philosophers generally give up thier genetic immortality for a literary one.
How would you you be more comfortable spending eternity?
In an idea or in a soup?
Having a people, having a family outweighs thought, it is love actually.
But some are less inclined to love because they are either denied it or have discounted it and this is usually because they have been denied it.
So if the world was at peace and filled with love there would be no philosophers?
Protege or progeny?
Your own children might disapoint you so why waste your time and resourses having them?
Better to have a comitee that can select a mind instead of the responsibilty of anothers heart.
Philosophers are not lifes losers they are lifes unlovers.
They say philosophy is the love of life right?
I dont, i say it is not love at all.
Unless it is a higher love for that of the world over the individual?
So you do not think a philosopher can be an artist??
If not then i'm stuffed.
Maybe that will be my breakthrough and legacy,
the inventor of the field of philosophy known as beauty?
Will come up with a better headline by tomorrow.


---------- Post added 04-27-2010 at 12:09 AM ----------

How much of philosophy and or art is inspiration?
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 05:49 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;156896 wrote:
Hopefully a better one chooses us.
I wonder why so many cant dont or wont just choose them selves?
The seat of all wisdom is our own capacity to understand.
Trust thy self with own education?
Only learn what one wants to know?
Only trust what others dont know you know?
The best teacher will show us the worth of what we dont care to know.
The best teacher knows how to explain things we would have missed were it not for their insistence and patience.
The best teacher is never yourself?

---------- Post added 04-27-2010 at 12:07 AM ----------


If i wanted to be somebody... i should have been more explicit.
Alot of the time philosophers want to be somebody because they cant find anyone else out there to make them real.
We can inevitably only really prove our own appreciation because someone out there has already beaten you to the punch line.
This is why comedy at the moment is so piss poor because we have already been told the joke.
Or the joke holds no investigation?
If a philosopher lives to philosophize and not conquer or convince they might be alot more happy or content with their condition.
For the journey not for the finality.
We all might be alot more happy content if we did not think we had to prove ourselves, and as the general philosopher as you say is peopleless they only have themselves to prove themselves to, even harder task because it is very hard to self congratulate and acctualy feel you have won at something.
Do you feel bigger once you have understood something or do you feel bigger when you have proved it to someone?
Philosophers generally give up thier genetic immortality for a literary one.
How would you you be more comfortable spending eternity?
In an idea or in a soup?
Having a people, having a family outweighs thought, it is love actually.
But some are less inclined to love because they are either denied it or have discounted it and this is usually because they have been denied it.
So if the world was at peace and filled with love there would be no philosophers?
Protege or progeny?
Your own children might disapoint you so why waste your time and resourses having them?
Better to have a comitee that can select a mind instead of the responsibilty of anothers heart.
Philosophers are not lifes losers they are lifes unlovers.
They say philosophy is the love of life right?
I dont, i say it is not love at all.
Unless it is a higher love for that of the world over the individual?
So you do not think a philosopher can be an artist??
If not then i'm stuffed.
Maybe that will be my breakthrough and legacy,
the inventor of the field of philosophy known as beauty?
Will come up with a better headline by tomorrow.


---------- Post added 04-27-2010 at 12:09 AM ----------

How much of philosophy and or art is inspiration?

True; we are made real in our relationships, and philosophers can't relate...
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 06:27 pm
@Fido,
Fido;156915 wrote:
True; we are made real in our relationships, and philosophers can't relate...

Philosophers cant relate to reality,
which is why they spend so much time thinking it up for other people and themesleves.

Thinking up reality?

So you would not call yourself a philosopher?
(please expand on this 'Back-door' proposal)

I only recently agreed this is what i am, fearfuly i might add.
(but then again i may have be a little relieved as well)

I do actually prefer consensus.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 07:18 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;156925 wrote:
Philosophers cant relate to reality,
which is why they spend so much time thinking it up for other people and themesleves.

Thinking up reality?

So you would not call yourself a philosopher?
(please expand on this 'Back-door' proposal)

I only recently agreed this is what i am, fearfuly i might add.
(but then again i may have be a little relieved as well)

I do actually prefer consensus.

I wanted to to learn because I wanted to know, and it was not out of a great love, but out of a hatred of my ignorance, which with my slow learning made me feel like a dimwit....So I learned...I did not start with philosophy the way a lot of people do, but picked up a little along the way, Plato twenty five years ago, and Nietzsche thirty five years ago, but not much other until recently...

I am really more of a moralist, and because moral reality does not follow the rules of physical reality it is hard to say I is a Philosopher... I don't care what people think should work with human relationships...I want to know what works and why, to find the logic of the thing and not to try to impose some sort of logic on it...That's me..
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 07:34 pm
@Fido,
Fido;156933 wrote:
I wanted to to learn because I wanted to know, and it was not out of a great love, but out of a hatred of my ignorance, which with my slow learning made me feel like a dimwit....So I learned...I did not start with philosophy the way a lot of people do, but picked up a little along the way, Plato twenty five years ago, and Nietzsche thirty five years ago, but not much other until recently...

I am really more of a moralist, and because moral reality does not follow the rules of physical reality it is hard to say I is a Philosopher... I don't care what people think should work with human relationships...I want to know what works and why, to find the logic of the thing and not to try to impose some sort of logic on it...That's me..

Did any of this have to with proof?
Were you, are you trying to prove or to be proven?
To yourself? to someone? to anyone? to eneryone? to no-one? to everything? to nothing?
How do you know or prove you are not ignorant?
Philosophy started with me,
Me did not start until philosophy.
I dont never have studied it until i came here.
And just ended up right back where it started from,
understanding myself.
Understanding anyone else.
That is what philosophy affords me,
an understanding of someone else,
and myself in the process.
Congression, similarity, common.
Do you think Karma is a moral reality?
Are you saying Philosophers are un-moral?
What is material is logic,
But what is the thread?
What is the weave?
What is the loom?
What is the artist?
Is what i suppose i spend my philosophy on.

I am glad to have met you.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 26 Apr, 2010 08:52 pm
@sometime sun,
The only thing I need to prove was that I was not retarded, and everytime I do something stupid that is still in doubt...

As far a philosophy goes, I am only in for the fun...It helps me to use what I have learned, so it forces me to relearn much of what I learned; and it challenges my learning,, and since I did not learn in a formal setting with tests and knob bobbing with professors, it is the closest I have ever been to some objective evidence of my knowledge... So I appreciate it....And I am grateful...
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2010 09:50 am
@mister kitten,
For me internet is a class. I am tres messes.on line with PhilosophyForum and made a friend; one at least. I find it fascinating to listen to songs about NY, put on the net by a radio-station in South of Spain.

I love the speed of exchange of Ideas. Is www a break-through; does it change thinking and Philosophy ?
 
Fido
 
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2010 10:46 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;157112 wrote:
For me internet is a class. I am tres messes.on line with PhilosophyForum and made a friend; one at least. I find it fascinating to listen to songs about NY, put on the net by a radio-station in South of Spain.

I love the speed of exchange of Ideas. Is www a break-through; does it change thinking and Philosophy ?

Ideas are a dime a dozen... The social forms we make of them is what matters... Examine the social forms against the ideas they were formed out of, and you will find they are all bastards cobbled together out of old shet, with one failure covering another... We cannot improve our garbage societies with technology... Every advance goes into the pockets of the rich and the poor are not one bit better off...Send all the ideas out there around the world at the speed of light and what do we have to put in the bank or pay the bills??? Nothing...I got an idea...Take it back from the rich...
 
 

 
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