The life of a philosopher?

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Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 06:45 pm
I seem to be struggling with something in my head right now that I cannot get over. I am very interested in philosophy and I hope that I may be able to create a future for myself in it. Problem is that education keeps getting in the way. My question is this. How far will I get by independently learning about philosophy? Is college a necessity? I guess what im trying to get at is that right now all I have is an amazing passion for philosophy but I don't know if that is enough. :brickwall:
 
Jebediah
 
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 07:18 pm
@Philosophinatic,
I think you'll find this thread relevant:

http://www.philosophyforum.com/lounge/general-discussion/8375-formal-education-philosophy.html

My question is, what do you think your passion might not be "enough" for? What kind of future are you talking about?
 
Humchuckninny
 
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 08:23 pm
@Philosophinatic,
Jebediah has a really good point - what is it your question is aiming at?

For example, you won't get very far trying to teach philosophy without the necessary degrees. Most advisory positions (ethics committee's at hospitals, political science, etc) also require either a degree or relevant experience.

However, if you're wanting personal enlightenment, "how far you can get" will be subject to your ability to self-teach. Socrates didn't have any formal philosophical education (that we know of) and he did pretty well for himself (if you don't count the whole, being sentenced to death.... thing...).

You don't need any formal education to get published either.

In order to give a more specific opinion I'd need more information, namely the kind Jebediah asked for. Otherwise, good luck to you! Smile
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2010 10:20 am
@Humchuckninny,
Are you trying to learn?
Or are you trying to teach?
Are you trying to be fulfilled?
Or are you trying to fulfil others?
People trust doctors more than shamans.
 
jgweed
 
Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2010 10:43 am
@Philosophinatic,
Practically anyone can learn to play the piano, or to complete a BA in philosophy (as an area of study); but it is passion---or what one might say, a calling---that enables a person to play the piano well, or to do philosophy with some kind of subtlety. Passion, in this sense, helps to overcome the tedium of doing scales or playing an opus over and over again until it is "right," or reading yet another philosophical text or explication, filling yet another notebook with outlines, or rewriting some essay of your own for the fourth time.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2010 10:56 am
@Philosophinatic,
Philosophinatic;153778 wrote:
I seem to be struggling with something in my head right now that I cannot get over. I am very interested in philosophy and I hope that I may be able to create a future for myself in it. Problem is that education keeps getting in the way. My question is this. How far will I get by independently learning about philosophy? Is college a necessity? I guess what im trying to get at is that right now all I have is an amazing passion for philosophy but I don't know if that is enough. :brickwall:


Is college necessary for what? You can certainly read philosophy and not go to college. What you will get out of reading it without any instruction or guidance is, of course, a different question. You might as well ask whether college is necessary for learning about physics or mathematics. What do you mean by "creating a future" for yourself? As in any other profession (if that is what you mean) you will, of course, need credentials. Philosophy is no different in this respect than is physics, or medicine.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2010 11:19 am
@Philosophinatic,
Philosophinatic;153778 wrote:
I seem to be struggling with something in my head right now that I cannot get over. I am very interested in philosophy and I hope that I may be able to create a future for myself in it. Problem is that education keeps getting in the way. My question is this. How far will I get by independently learning about philosophy? Is college a necessity? I guess what im trying to get at is that right now all I have is an amazing passion for philosophy but I don't know if that is enough. :brickwall:

Passion is a good start...If you do it well you will do it often, for no one does often what they do not do well as they cannot enjoy it, and and if they do enjoy it, to this they will give they will give the chief of all their days... You would have to be me to try so often what is unknown to be so often met with failure, and still, there are many things I can do even if I could not make my living at them..
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2010 11:29 am
@Fido,
Fido;154041 wrote:
Passion is a good start...If you do it well you will do it often, for no one does often what they do not do well as they cannot enjoy it, and and if they do enjoy it, to this they will give they will give the chief of all their days... You would have to be me to try so often what is unknown to be so often met with failure, and still, there are many things I can do even if I could not make my living at them..


Passion may be a good start, but it is nothing to keep running on. Sooner or later you have to get down to learning stuff, and you may find some of it not so passionate, like propositional logic. Since, trying to philosophize without knowing logic is like trying to row a boat without without oars.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2010 09:35 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;154046 wrote:
Passion may be a good start, but it is nothing to keep running on. Sooner or later you have to get down to learning stuff, and you may find some of it not so passionate, like propositional logic. Since, trying to philosophize without knowing logic is like trying to row a boat without without oars.

I presume logic of anyone who can find face with food...In thie deepest drives people are hardly logical, but to achieve any goal people have to be logical and act logically...Mathematics is a strictly logical exercise, and language too has its logic...So are you saying know logic well enough to explain it, and teach it??? Because I think it no substitute for insight which all have in some ratio, and can only improve upon with knowledge...So, If one wants to be a lover of knowledge forget being a logician, and consider a rational sampling of all that is known...I either had to live in the library or make my home a library...I chose the later, and I still have my library card...You will never know what you need to know until you need it and don't know it...
 
Philosophinatic
 
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 06:56 pm
@Jebediah,
Jebediah;153789 wrote:
I think you'll find this thread relevant:

http://www.philosophyforum.com/lounge/general-discussion/8375-formal-education-philosophy.html

My question is, what do you think your passion might not be "enough" for? What kind of future are you talking about?


I am talking about a future where I may bring a child into the world and have him/her go to school, have clothes to wear, and food to eat. I want to own a house of my own as well. But after experiencing philosophy I cannot imagine myself doing anything else.

---------- Post added 04-21-2010 at 07:58 PM ----------

sometime sun;154009 wrote:
Are you trying to learn?
Or are you trying to teach?
Are you trying to be fulfilled?
Or are you trying to fulfil others?
People trust doctors more than shamans.


I want to fulfill myself and hopefully others as well (not necessarily teach them).
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 07:08 pm
@Fido,
Fido;154279 wrote:
If one wants to be a lover of knowledge forget being a logician, and consider a rational sampling of all that is known...I either had to live in the library or make my home a library...I chose the later, and I still have my library card...You will never know what you need to know until you need it and don't know it...


I really have no idea what any of this means. I imagine you think you do, though.
 
reasoning logic
 
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 07:40 pm
@kennethamy,
My advice to you is to get married, and if you find a good philosopher you will be happy, and if not then you will become a philosopher.Laughing
 
haribol acharya
 
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 07:59 pm
@Philosophinatic,
Philosophy is a passion and studying a course is a discipline. Passion is not enough and what we need is a combination of both. Life is not just philosophy only. Life is something more than philosophy. I have a great passion for philosophy but I have a duty too to my family members and we need a job and philosophy alone does not help in getting a job. Even if you know lots of philosophy you cannot be a professor of philosophy in universities if you hold no degree. A degree is a must and for that you will have to dedicate your time and energies to other important faculties or disciplines.

Of course you can read philosophical texts in your spare time. I have a great fascination for it. I am a degree holder in literature, professionally a banker and passionately a thinker and have therefore passions for philosophies. Now no other disciplines interest me more than philosophies. Philosophy is everything, in science, in religion, in theology, in management, in ethics and economics.

Philosophy is not the subject to study about only philosophy. It contains a great range of subjects. This is a very wide domain.

Now I am reading the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith and I find the entire book full of philosophical jardinieres. Isn't the origin of species by Charles Darwin philosophical? Is the Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky less philosophical in point of fact. The Vedas, the Koran, the Bible are all philosophical treatises.

Philosophy is a way of inquiries into some of the greater generally unanswered domains of life and the universe. It is an integral study and it studies things in their entirety. For instance Darwin's theory tries to answer how we came here and how man originated. But it never asks a vital and in fact more intriguing question of the whys. The question as to why we are here is trickier than any other questions.

Of course through philosophical inquiries you can find yourself closer and closer to the fact of the matter.

We study philosophy as a great passion and yet reading the rest of other disciplines are our social compulsions. We can study both side by side.
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 08:43 pm
@Philosophinatic,
Philosophinatic;155045 wrote:
I am talking about a future where I may bring a child into the world and have him/her go to school, have clothes to wear, and food to eat. I want to own a house of my own as well. But after experiencing philosophy I cannot imagine myself doing anything else.

---------- Post added 04-21-2010 at 07:58 PM ----------



I want to fulfill myself and hopefully others as well (not necessarily teach them).

The object of philosophy and the proof of philosophy is a well lived life... Look at how many philosophers have lived down right lonely and miserable lives...They're lives were big failures like most of their philosophies; but look at all the happy people who can enjoy family life, and take the good with the bad....Is it possible that their lives were not the result of a good personal philosophy???

---------- Post added 04-21-2010 at 10:47 PM ----------

reasoning logic;155060 wrote:
My advice to you is to get married, and if you find a good philosopher you will be happy, and if not then you will become a philosopher.Laughing

If you are not happy before getting married, you will not be happy after...Marriage is a cure of sorts for loneliness, not for mental illness or any other misery... It takes good health, mental and physical to maintain a relationship... Love is not for the weak in body or will....It is often a test of both...

---------- Post added 04-21-2010 at 10:54 PM ----------

kennethamy;155051 wrote:
I really have no idea what any of this means. I imagine you think you do, though.

For you, I will try to explain...If you want to know, learn...Logic without knowledge is more GIGO... Logic works in the physical world...In the moral world where many live, the world work when people act illogically, and it is for that reason that virtue cannot be taught... When something is taught, it is the logic of it which is taught...There may be a logic to morals, such as social survival, but when individual survival is logical, and nothing can be logical without life, then social survival, whether it be moral or not cannot be logical...
 
reasoning logic
 
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2010 04:15 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic;155060 wrote:
My advice to you is to get married, and if you find a good philosopher you will be happy, and if not then you will become a philosopher.Laughing
I made a mistake, this post was meant to be replied to another thread. Can a philosopher be a good partner? I guess I should not drink and make a post at the same time:detective:
 
reasoning logic
 
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2010 07:28 pm
@Fido,
Fido;155095 wrote:
The object of philosophy and the proof of philosophy is a well lived life... Look at how many philosophers have lived down right lonely and miserable lives...They're lives were big failures like most of their philosophies; but look at all the happy people who can enjoy family life, and take the good with the bad....Is it possible that their lives were not the result of a good personal philosophy???

---------- Post added 04-21-2010 at 10:47 PM ----------


If you are not happy before getting married, you will not be happy after...Marriage is a cure of sorts for loneliness, not for mental illness or any other misery... It takes good health, mental and physical to maintain a relationship... Love is not for the weak in body or will....It is often a test of both...

---------- Post added 04-21-2010 at 10:54 PM ----------


For you, I will try to explain...If you want to know, learn...Logic without knowledge is more GIGO... Logic works in the physical world...In the moral world where many live, the world work when people act illogically, and it is for that reason that virtue cannot be taught... When something is taught, it is the logic of it which is taught...There may be a logic to morals, such as social survival, but when individual survival is logical, and nothing can be logical without life, then social survival, whether it be moral or not cannot be logical...



Your quote [If you are not happy before getting married, you will not be happy after...Marriage is a cure of sorts for loneliness, not for mental illness or any other misery... It takes good health, mental and physical to maintain a relationship... Love is not for the weak in body or will....It is often a test of both...]
This does seem to be reasonable to a point. My health is not the best as I do have a problem that I have never seen before. My wife seems to be crazy but dont they all. LOL We are all very different than each other and that seems to me to be our greatest challenge. Both my grand parents were married for life but from what I understand it was not without great problems. Next month will be 26 years for me and my wife. This may seem as a crazy philosophy but any ways the question is if your kids thought differently than you would you stop claiming them? What if after time you see that you and your wife do not share the same thoughts would you stop claiming her?:detective:
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2010 08:38 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic;155464 wrote:
Your quote [If you are not happy before getting married, you will not be happy after...Marriage is a cure of sorts for loneliness, not for mental illness or any other misery... It takes good health, mental and physical to maintain a relationship... Love is not for the weak in body or will....It is often a test of both...]
This does seem to be reasonable to a point. My health is not the best as I do have a problem that I have never seen before. My wife seems to be crazy but dont they all. LOL We are all very different than each other and that seems to me to be our greatest challenge. Both my grand parents were married for life but from what I understand it was not without great problems. Next month will be 26 years for me and my wife. This may seem as a crazy philosophy but any ways the question is if your kids thought differently than you would you stop claiming them? What if after time you see that you and your wife do not share the same thoughts would you stop claiming her?:detective:

My wife went crazy once or twice, and so I never trusted her...I was crazy all the time so the big mistake was trusting me...

I don't want to give advice to the lovelorn... My wife packed up and left and it has done me a world of good... I saw through to the cause of pain that had been injuring me for almost my entire 56 years...I shed about forty pounds, a bunch of mental garbage, realized what I could live without and what I wanted... Now I am training for a five K, and have not been in this kind of shape for perhaps 20 years...I will never be pefect for my wife... She is a wonderful person with her own issues that may never be resolved; but she is strong, and smart, and has a will of steel... And she is very easy on the eyes, I must add with a spakling personality...And I am just me, ten years older than her, always more of a thinker and with few of the social skills that make her who she is...

All I know is that love and relationships are best fed by desire than driven by need...If I thought I needed her to make me complete, I would not bother... I want her because she is the object if that is not too unfair a word, of my adoration... It is not easy... She has power over me, and it is hard to climb into bed withsome one with the power to destroy you, and she can, but not because I can't live without her if that is her desire; but because to adore one who finds offense in you makes you aware of every contradiction in your life... Not one of us can cover up all our flaws when all we see are our flaws... I would feel naked, abandoned, and without honor is she hated me... I trust her more than I trust myself...
 
Philosophinatic
 
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2010 09:05 pm
@Fido,
Fido;155095 wrote:
The object of philosophy and the proof of philosophy is a well lived life... Look at how many philosophers have lived down right lonely and miserable lives...They're lives were big failures like most of their philosophies; but look at all the happy people who can enjoy family life, and take the good with the bad....Is it possible that their lives were not the result of a good personal philosophy???



I would like to point out a certain philosopher in history maybe you have heard of him. Does the name Baruch Spinoza ring any bells? This man was banished from all human contact and had the wrath of god thrust upon him and like you said he lived out his days miserable and alone. How is it that he became arguably one of the top 2 or 3 greatest writers to appear in the European tradition since the time of the Greeks?:a-thought:
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2010 09:48 pm
@Philosophinatic,
Philosophinatic;155520 wrote:
I would like to point out a certain philosopher in history maybe you have heard of him. Does the name Baruch Spinoza ring any bells? This man was banished from all human contact and had the wrath of god thrust upon him and like you said he lived out his days miserable and alone. How is it that he became arguably one of the top 2 or 3 greatest writers to appear in the European tradition since the time of the Greeks?:a-thought:

He had great friendships, and even, before alienating his community he had relationships there as well... Even Nietzsche had friends; but very few of these profesional thinkers had the stuff in them required by a true, loving romantic relationship, and for one reason or another I share that quality, though not to the same degree...Aristippus I admire for his sense of humor, and after all, that he could love, and raise his daughter to be great in a man's world... And he had a way of putting things in perspective as few before or after could... But almost universally, philosophers have been terrible at relationships..And in relationships is were the happiness lies...
 
 

 
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