Can you be wiser than you know?

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Deckard
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 03:28 am
@Wisdom Seeker,
Wisdom Seeker;151831 wrote:


if you have more knowledge on that part, you become more wise on that part, you may be wise at ethics but not on meta-physics or vice-versa, you may be more great in mathematics but not on philosophy...


Are there opportunity costs to gaining knowledge in one area? It seems there are for you cannot then devote that time to gaining knowledge in another area. Specialization is the bane of total wisdom and is wisdom still wisdom when it is not total? Consider Socrates Apology and how he exposed the specialist as less than wise. This is a topic that deserves it's own thread perhaps.

If global wisdom is impossible then we must find some other way...for example a community of specialists that trust each other. Aye there's the rub! that trust! Perhaps finding that community trust is the closest we can approach the global wisdom that even the Socratic gadfly could not undermine. And I propose a collective effort that surpasses even the dreams of Bacon for even the broadest knowledge of positivistic Science is still only a specialization.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 03:40 am
@Deckard,
Deckard;152192 wrote:
Are there opportunity costs to gaining knowledge in one area? It seems there are for you cannot then devote that time to gaining knowledge in another area. Specialization is the bane of total wisdom and is wisdom still wisdom when it is not total? Consider Socrates Apology and how he exposed the specialist as less than wise. This is a topic that deserves it's own thread perhaps.

If global wisdom is impossible then we must find some other way...for example a community of specialists that trust each other. Aye there's the rub! that trust! Perhaps finding that community trust is the closest we can approach the global wisdom that even the Socratic gadfly could not undermine. And I propose a collective effort that surpasses even the dreams of Bacon for even the broadest knowledge of positivistic Science is still only a specialization.
All branches of wisdom and knowledge has various amount of connection between eachother, thus your specialization must always rely upon a good common knowledge basis.

I'v seen highly brillian siencetist who would speak purely nonsens, even about his/her own field, because they didn't possess a good amount of common knowledge.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 03:44 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;152194 wrote:
One may specialize in 1 branch of knowledge and wisdom, but should have a good basis of common knowledge, else it would have no purpose as your work still needs some kind of relation to others branches of knowledge and wisdom.


I agree. How then do we define that basis of common knowledge? And if one has that basis, is then one wise?
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 03:45 am
@Deckard,
Deckard;152195 wrote:
I agree. How then do we define that basis of common knowledge? And if one has that basis, is then one wise?
There is no set definition of what it is, but only that "the more the better"

A person who works in Wallstreet is wise in 1 way, but wouldn't survive in the jungle. A person raised in the jungle may not survive in Wallstreet, we all have different kind of wisdom suited for different situations and areas ..it all depends.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 03:54 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;152196 wrote:
There is no set definition of what it is, but only that "the more the better"


Any opinion on the community of federated specialists together composing and optimum of collective wisdom...your common knowledge seems to constitute a common language for such a community. There might even be a sort of specialist that specializes in the study of this common language.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 04:01 am
@Deckard,
Deckard;152200 wrote:
Any opinion on the community of federated specialists together composing and optimum of collective wisdom...your common knowledge seems to constitute a common language for such a community. There might even be a sort of specialist that specializes in the study of this common language.
You seek too narrow premesis for your definition.

Any person can only learn so much, we can't both be body builders, siencetists, doctors, engineers, artists, stock brokers, fighter pilots, psycologists, do all olympic sports ..etc.

One must boil it down to understand the common principles that applies to all things in life, and choose what fits you the best.

Some like quiet things, some like noisy things, some like study the universe, some like study the earth ..sea ..humans ..etc.

..but ofc not lose sight of other things (as mentioned in earlier post)

Broad common knowledge + many deep interests + few specializations.
 
William
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 04:48 am
@Deckard,
Let us observe for a moment what all mighty WIKI has to say on the subject:

"Wisdom is a deep understanding of people, things, events or situations, resulting in the ability to choose or act to consistently produce the optimum results with a minimum of time and energy. Wisdom is the ability to optimally (effectively and efficiently) apply perceptions and knowledge and so produce the desired results. Wisdom is comprehension of what is true or right coupled with optimum judgment as to action. (?) Synonyms include: sagacity, discernment, or insight. Wisdom often requires control of one's emotional reactions (the "passions") so that one's principles, reason and knowledge prevail to determine one's actions".

Many will say WIKI doesn't know everything, but they are surely trying to define it, huh! They give new meaning to what comprehensive is, ha! We will never be able to do that. In the above quote allow me point out a discrepancy that has always been a discrepancy. The sentence highlighted is wrong and always has been. "Wisdom is the comprehension of what is true or right coupled with OPTIMUM JUDGMENT AS TO ACTION"?

Wisdom is the ability to understand, not to judge! There should be no judgment unless one knows ALL there is to know about that they are judging. No ONE knows that so not action could be taken. What action is, is wrong if one does not know all there is to know. Always has been and always will be as long as we judge. So what are we to do?

We have to understand what we are dealing with? NO. We have to understand what we are working with? NO. We must strive to understand what we have now. Not what we did; not what we will do........WHAT WE HAVE NOW. That is what we must focus our attention on and it starts with each and every ONE of US is such away we DO NOT DISTURB each other. Can we do that? Hmmm? I think that is the only way. If so then where do we start? Out of the mouths of babes? ABSOLUTELY, please, no question about it! Let's discuss it, shall we. Who is he who is what we call an adult who hasn't been there themselves. Who, Who, who? Ha!

William
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 08:41 am
@William,
William ..that's the definition, not what it consist of.
 
William
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 10:27 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;152249 wrote:
William ..that's the definition, not what it consist of.


If you don't mind, please explain the difference? If a definition does not explain what a thing consists of then how can we define anything? If we find inconsistencies we redefine it, right? So if we are have difficulty explaining what wisdom is how can we define it. I just related one inconsistency to what WIKI espoused. You are more than welcome to offer yours. If we could indeed find all those inconsistencies then we would know what it is and no longer need a definition, it would be truly definite, huh! Pure, unequivocal, precise and constant. We surely wouldn't quibble, huh?

William
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 10:46 am
@William,
William;152320 wrote:
If you don't mind, please explain the difference? If a definition does not explain what a thing consists of then how can we define anything? If we find inconsistencies we redefine it, right? So if we are have difficulty explaining what wisdom is how can we define it. I just related one inconsistency to what WIKI espoused. You are more than welcome to offer yours. If we could indeed find all those inconsistencies then we would know what it is and no longer need a definition, it would be truly definite, huh! Pure, unequivocal, precise and constant. We surely wouldn't quibble, huh?
You have only defined the algorithm/definition of wisdom to know what wisdom is from intelligence and knowledge.

It's like saying mammals gives birth to live offspring, making a distinction from ie fish which gives birth to egg, by that, not a single time mentioned any specific species, as you have not specifyed/mentioned any words of wisdom.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 08:47 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;152201 wrote:
You seek too narrow premesis for your definition.

Any person can only learn so much, we can't both be body builders, siencetists, doctors, engineers, artists, stock brokers, fighter pilots, psycologists, do all olympic sports ..etc.

One must boil it down to understand the common principles that applies to all things in life, and choose what fits you the best.

Some like quiet things, some like noisy things, some like study the universe, some like study the earth ..sea ..humans ..etc.

..but ofc not lose sight of other things (as mentioned in earlier post)

Broad common knowledge + many deep interests + few specializations.


I guess I was trying to make a movement from "Can you be wiser than you know?" to the question "Can we be wiser than we know?"

Failing to recognize our participation in a collective wisdom would be one way for someone to be wiser than he/she knows.

I just found it interesting. I don't understand the comment: "You seek too narrow premesis for your definition."
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 08:58 pm
@Deckard,
Deckard;152588 wrote:
I guess I was trying to make a movement from "Can you be wiser than you know?" to the question "Can we be wiser than we know?"

Failing to recognize our participation in a collective wisdom would be one way for someone to be wiser than he/she knows.

I just found it interesting. I don't understand the comment: "You seek too narrow premesis for your definition."
It would say only humans are mammals, leaving out thousands upon thousands of other mammal species, that's a too narrow definition.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 09:02 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;152593 wrote:
It would say only humans are mammals, leaving out thousands upon thousands of other mammal species, that's a too narrow definition.

Still not understanding what you are talking about. What does "It" refer to in the above sentence?
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2010 09:04 pm
@Deckard,
Deckard;152594 wrote:
Still not understanding what you are talking about. What does "It" refer to in the above sentence?
Think I meant "it would be the same as saying ..bla bla"

Sometimes my mind and scribbles are not alligned proberly :whistling:
 
 

 
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