Are you too nice?

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Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 10:50 am
I don't know exactly where to post this, maybe ethics? But I will post it here in full knowing it may well be moved.

Am I the only one that seems to be too nice, probably because of my "philosophical" and thus "moral" analyzing and self judging I make of myself quite often? I would surely hope I am not the only one here who seems to be too nice at times, seeming to overcompensate for wrongs I think I have committed, or maybe overapplying the Golden Rule, etc...

This strange optimism disappointments me more often than not. My car was wrecked nearly 4 months ago, my body shop has yet to fix it although the owner got payment, and because I remind myself all the time that I once was late on paying him money, and he'll tell me about his best friend's recent death, I can't bring myself to try to objectively present my aesthetic damage to my car as more important.

But, I think that others pick up on this innately, because it's probably obvious. Therefore I think I get taken advantage of, because although sometimes karma takes hold, it seems others I was clearly taken advantage of and was only being ignorant to let it happen. Such as my previous boss, whom yelled at me the most, paid me 6 weeks late for 9 months, and got me to fix his cars and computers and have yet to be paid.

Anyone else put themselves in these positions, or have any advice for me to not feel "guilty" or "hypocritical" but not get "taken advantage of"?
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 11:20 am
@bmcreider,
Let them take advantage as long as they dont take everything and even this one should be willing to give.

I hate the addage, 'no good deed goes unpunished', i prefer no good deed needs rewarding.

Am i too nice?
Not to myself so it actually means something.

When it comes to business you should expect what you pay for otherwise you are actually being a bad customer.
Know your rights, they may just be nicer to the next person if you have pressed on them a work ethic.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 11:25 am
@bmcreider,
bmcreider;145626 wrote:
I don't know exactly where to post this, maybe ethics? But I will post it here in full knowing it may well be moved.





I am not too nice. But I am just nice enough. You don't want to be too anything. Everything in moderation.
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 12:20 pm
@bmcreider,
bmcreider;145626 wrote:
I don't know exactly where to post this, maybe ethics? But I will post it here in full knowing it may well be moved.

Am I the only one that seems to be too nice, probably because of my "philosophical" and thus "moral" analyzing and self judging I make of myself quite often? I would surely hope I am not the only one here who seems to be too nice at times, seeming to overcompensate for wrongs I think I have committed, or maybe overapplying the Golden Rule, etc...

This strange optimism disappointments me more often than not. My car was wrecked nearly 4 months ago, my body shop has yet to fix it although the owner got payment, and because I remind myself all the time that I once was late on paying him money, and he'll tell me about his best friend's recent death, I can't bring myself to try to objectively present my aesthetic damage to my car as more important.



With car repairs, you should not pay before the work is done. You should pay when you pick up the car after the work is done. This motivates them to actually do the work, because they want to be paid, and you are motivated to pay when you pick up the car because you want your car back.

Once you get your car back, never go back to that car repair place again. You may want to contact the state attorney general about this; here is the link for Texas:

Texas Attorney General

You will want to look under the heading "Consumer Protection". Check into this right away; it may help you get your car back.

Take action, and do not be a sucker. And do not confuse being a sucker with being "nice". There is nothing nice about being a sucker.


bmcreider;145626 wrote:
But, I think that others pick up on this innately, because it's probably obvious. Therefore I think I get taken advantage of, because although sometimes karma takes hold, it seems others I was clearly taken advantage of and was only being ignorant to let it happen. Such as my previous boss, whom yelled at me the most, paid me 6 weeks late for 9 months, and got me to fix his cars and computers and have yet to be paid.

Anyone else put themselves in these positions, or have any advice for me to not feel "guilty" or "hypocritical" but not get "taken advantage of"?



Being a doormat and being nice are two different things. Letting people take advantage of you is obviously bad for you. But it is also bad for others. This is because you are teaching these bad people that trying to take advantage of others is profitable, so they are more likely to try to take advantage of other people. So you are not being nice at all when you let others take advantage of you.

Stand up for yourself, and do not patronize shops that try to take advantage of you.

If you follow my advice, you will probably feel better about yourself in the long run, and you will also be helping to make the world a better place. What could be better than that?
 
bmcreider
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 12:21 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;145635 wrote:
Let them take advantage as long as they dont take everything and even this one should be willing to give.

I hate the addage, 'no good deed goes unpunished', i prefer no good deed needs rewarding.

Am i too nice?
Not to myself so it actually means something.

When it comes to business you should expect what you pay for otherwise you are actually being a bad customer.
Know your rights, they may just be nicer to the next person if you have pressed on them a work ethic.


That is the optimistic view I try to instill in myself as well. That I shouldn't feel cheated, because I shouldn't expect anything in return, because that is being selfish - that's a worst case scenario, it doesn't always end up so deflating. But, does that just mean I am selflessly selfish, if I expect respect or reciprocation in return, a la Golden Rule?

---------- Post added 03-29-2010 at 01:27 PM ----------

Pyrrho;145672 wrote:


If you follow my advice, you will probably feel better about yourself in the long run, and you will also be helping to make the world a better place. What could be better than that?


This I also good advice. The case is not always easy as a stranger has time to read about on a forum, nor I have to write a back story. But this shop, and owner, have helped us before, cutting us breaks on repair bills, repairing accidents without insurance, etc. Only, now, due to his business ethics himself, perhaps, he over-promises and under-delivers. I still have my car, and have yet to take it in, but previously, I would and was stuck in a rental for 2 months - but due to money he'd eventually fix it.

I suppose I try to see the "best" in this scenario, as he has fixed a car on time for me and been paid late in the past - and now, well, you know the story.
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 12:27 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;145635 wrote:
Let them take advantage as long as they dont take everything and even this one should be willing to give.



I think that is some of the worst advice I have ever read. However, you do not keep to that, and offer much better advice in the end:


sometime sun;145635 wrote:
I hate the addage, 'no good deed goes unpunished', i prefer no good deed needs rewarding.

Am i too nice?
Not to myself so it actually means something.

When it comes to business you should expect what you pay for otherwise you are actually being a bad customer.
Know your rights, they may just be nicer to the next person if you have pressed on them a work ethic.
[emphasis added]


Yes. Letting people walk all over you trains them to try to walk all over other people. You are making the world a worse place if you are a doormat. Stop it, and stand up for yourself in order to make the world a better place. It is your duty to humanity to stand up for your rights in cases like the ones discussed in this thread.
 
mister kitten
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 01:08 pm
@bmcreider,
bmcreider;145626 wrote:
I don't know exactly where to post this, maybe ethics? But I will post it here in full knowing it may well be moved.

Am I the only one that seems to be too nice, probably because of my "philosophical" and thus "moral" analyzing and self judging I make of myself quite often? I would surely hope I am not the only one here who seems to be too nice at times, seeming to overcompensate for wrongs I think I have committed, or maybe overapplying the Golden Rule, etc...

This strange optimism disappointments me more often than not. My car was wrecked nearly 4 months ago, my body shop has yet to fix it although the owner got payment, and because I remind myself all the time that I once was late on paying him money, and he'll tell me about his best friend's recent death, I can't bring myself to try to objectively present my aesthetic damage to my car as more important.

But, I think that others pick up on this innately, because it's probably obvious. Therefore I think I get taken advantage of, because although sometimes karma takes hold, it seems others I was clearly taken advantage of and was only being ignorant to let it happen. Such as my previous boss, whom yelled at me the most, paid me 6 weeks late for 9 months, and got me to fix his cars and computers and have yet to be paid.

Anyone else put themselves in these positions, or have any advice for me to not feel "guilty" or "hypocritical" but not get "taken advantage of"?


Ayn Rand will send her Objectivism ninjas after you.

Is there a difference between being nice and letting others take advantage of you?
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 01:21 pm
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;145699 wrote:
Is there a difference between being nice and letting others take advantage of you?


You can be nice and assertive at the same time. The people who don't like your asserting yourself are likely the ones who would take advantage of you if you weren't. You can't worry about them, hard as it may seem.
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 01:57 pm
@bmcreider,
bmcreider;145674 wrote:
...

This I also good advice. The case is not always easy as a stranger has time to read about on a forum, nor I have to write a back story. But this shop, and owner, have helped us before, cutting us breaks on repair bills, repairing accidents without insurance, etc. Only, now, due to his business ethics himself, perhaps, he over-promises and under-delivers. I still have my car, and have yet to take it in, but previously, I would and was stuck in a rental for 2 months - but due to money he'd eventually fix it.

I suppose I try to see the "best" in this scenario, as he has fixed a car on time for me and been paid late in the past - and now, well, you know the story.



I am confused now. Are you saying that you paid for a repair before you even took the car in to be repaired?
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 02:11 pm
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;145679 wrote:
I think that is some of the worst advice I have ever read. However, you do not keep to that, and offer much better advice in the end:

Matters of the heart and matters of economics,
If you give your whole heart it is worth much more, or is only worht as much as it breaks.
You cant expect it from anyone else if you are not willing and able to give all you have.
Just as with economics if you dont get everything you pay for you have not gotten everything that was promised.
The heart should not make promices it should only prove itself. Ha slittle to do with business.
Where as business must make promices and must be proven by them. Ha slittle to do with the heart.
But i suppose pride comes into both?
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 02:32 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;145733 wrote:
The heart should not make promices it should only prove itself.


Nicely said.

Do you think we need to guard our hearts?
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 02:46 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;145748 wrote:
Nicely said.

Do you think we need to guard our hearts?

In a perfect world no, we learn to guard, so sometimes it is a reflex.
But if you live by my edict which is you have nothing left to lose you can find that the heart is endless.
Your heart my be hurt but you have nothing to be ashamed of.

Does the heart need to be hurt? would be the next question
 
wayne
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 03:09 pm
@bmcreider,
As I grow older, and more experienced, I find that when I have been hurt in giving kindness, and just plain being nice, it has been my selfishness that hurt me.

I am learning to give more unselfishly, without expectations. I am never hurt by someones behavior when I am nice just because I like myself that way.
To be nice ,having expectations of equal respect, is setting myself up for hurt and anger.
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 03:12 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;145763 wrote:
In a perfect world no, we learn to guard, so sometimes it is a reflex.
But if you live by my edict which is you have nothing left to lose you can find that the heart is endless.
Your heart my be hurt but you have nothing to be ashamed of.

Does the heart need to be hurt? would be the next question


Does the heart need to be hurt as in a learning experience, or is what you say meant more as an existential question?

My sense is that in order to have an unguarded heart you would have to be very strong, or very cold. Maybe both, and maybe only at times.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 03:44 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;145775 wrote:
Does the heart need to be hurt as in a learning experience, or is what you say meant more as an existential question?

My sense is that in order to have an unguarded heart you would have to be very strong, or very cold. Maybe both, and maybe only at times.

Life is learning, life can be blissful and painful, what i am asking is existential but boiled down, life is painful embrace the pain it is as natural as bliss.
Love is not all nice, why people think it is or even could be sometimes suprises me.
You can be ready for pain but not guard against it. Some small amount of contentment i suppose.
Embrace your pain it will be with you longer than bliss.
I hope this does not make me cold because i know i am not always strong.
Case in point these past weeks, but just because i was in pain and doubt did not mean i ran screaming from it.
So infact i would say i have never been as strong as i am now, all due to the fact i have nothing left to lose and pain does go away quicker if you face it.
All fear is pain, not all pain is fear?
Love is worth much pain, but is pain worth as much love?
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 03:54 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;145791 wrote:

All fear is pain, not all pain is fear?
Love is worth much pain, but is pain worth as much love?


I would say that not all pain is fear, and that all fear is pain.

But I don't follow you on the second question. Can you say more about it, especially the second half?
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 04:15 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;145797 wrote:
I would say that not all pain is fear, and that all fear is pain.

But I don't follow you on the second question. Can you say more about it, especially the second half?

Can we embrace that which we know could or will destroy us? (That might be taking it a little to far)
Is destruction as natural an event as creation?
Why is one feared or preferred above the other?
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 04:23 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;145809 wrote:
Can we embrace that which we know could or will destroy us? (That might be taking it a little to far)


Why would we want to? Perhaps because there will be a rebirth? (Assuming we are speaking figuratively.)
 
bmcreider
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 04:26 pm
@bmcreider,
Can you have creation without destruction? Can that be a metaphor for good without evil?

I like myself, and have a relatively clean conscience, even after thorough paralysis by analysis, so I like that. But - it is those people who are willing to deny ethics, or anyone else, that willingly take advantage of others. This doesn't appear to be unusual in any animal kingdom, competition is natural.

But then it seems much of philosophy makes a case against that natural dog-eat-dog mentality, and prides the reader on being selfless, or attempting to, to try to initiate a reciprocity following the golden rule.

But, obviously, some here say not to worry about them, or listen to what they say, because they (if they can't understand your assertiveness) just want to exploit you. But then many others say judge not lest ye be judged, and, if I constantly look over my shoulder for exploitation, which I could and do, then do I not fall victim to self-fulfilling prophecies? If you expect people to exploit you, won't they? If you don't, will they?
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 05:14 pm
@bmcreider,
bmcreider;145817 wrote:
But then many others say judge not lest ye be judged, and, if I constantly look over my shoulder for exploitation, which I could and do, then do I not fall victim to self-fulfilling prophecies? If you expect people to exploit you, won't they? If you don't, will they?


I think you have to judge, not in a juridical sense, but in a more basic sense. Judge if others are trying to take advantage of you, when they are trying to take advantage of you. You don't have to look over your shoulder for exploitation. You will find it face to face, and that's where you should be ready for it. It's hard at first to stand up for yourself, but it does get easier in time. Remember - you don't owe an exploiter anything. You really don't.
 
 

 
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