Hypocrite

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Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 05:41 pm
Is a hypocrite all bad?

Does not by being one mean you have learned something different and greater?

Are we not all hypocrites unless we have all learned all there is to be complete?


And going from the assertion that no one person can be complete, becasue we must always learn change evolve into something new and different (something more the same) mean that we are all hypocrites, unless we stop learning?

Perhaps the only non-hypocrites are the dead or retarded?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 07:31 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;131585 wrote:
Is a hypocrite all bad?

Does not by being one mean you have learned something different and greater?

Are we not all hypocrites unless we have all learned all there is to be complete?


And going from the assertion that no one person can be complete, becasue we must always learn change evolve into something new and different (something more the same) mean that we are all hypocrites, unless we stop learning?

Perhaps the only non-hypocrites are the dead or retarded?


Excellent questions. I think the non-hypocrite is an ideal to strive for. Perhaps we never attain it completely. Except maybe in our coffins.
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 08:58 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;131585 wrote:
Is a hypocrite all bad?



Being a hypocrite is bad. It may, however, be better than actually doing what one claims to believe, if one claims to believe very bad things. But it would be better to be honest and not claim to believe such bad things.


sometime sun;131585 wrote:
Does not by being one mean you have learned something different and greater?



There is a difference between being a hypocrite and changing one's mind about something. The first advocates what one does not believe, and the second advocated what one does not believe.


sometime sun;131585 wrote:
Are we not all hypocrites unless we have all learned all there is to be complete?



No. You might want to look up the word "hypocrite" in a dictionary:

Quote:

a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess,esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.


Hypocrite | Define Hypocrite at Dictionary.com

Being a hypocrite is a form of dishonesty.


sometime sun;131585 wrote:
And going from the assertion that no one person can be complete, becasue we must always learn change evolve into something new and different (something more the same) mean that we are all hypocrites, unless we stop learning?

Perhaps the only non-hypocrites are the dead or retarded?



No. See above.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 09:11 pm
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;
Dont we all pretend in some manner or other all of the time?

So you are saying there is a way to become more honest? no less dishonest?
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 09:42 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;131698 wrote:
Pyrrho;
Dont we all pretend in some manner or other all of the time?



I am tempted to just say "no", but instead I will ask, what do you mean, and why would you suppose that people always pretend?


sometime sun;131698 wrote:
So you are saying there is a way to become more honest? no less dishonest?



If one is a male politician who picks up men in airports to have sex with them, one can avoid being rampantly anti-homosexual in one's public pronouncements. And that is all it would take to avoid hypocrisy about that issue; keeping one's mouth shut about the issue would be all that it would take.

It is all a question of honesty, and some people are honest, while some are very dishonest, and many are honest much of the time, but not all of it. You may have noticed different levels of honesty in other people. Some people are very hypocritical, while others are not. If all of the people you know are a bunch of lying hypocrites, I suggest you make some new acquaintances, and select them differently from the way you have selected the people you know.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 12:57 am
@Pyrrho,
What about the hypercrites? Those who commit to their role so thoroughly that they forget that "all the world's a stage". That way lies madness. The hypercrites overshoot the mark. They don't know how to be merely authentic. They strive for some unattainable super-authenticity.

There must be some middle way between these two extremes; there must be a way to be neither a hypocrite nor a hypercrite.

I am a crite.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 01:02 am
@Deckard,
Deckard;131758 wrote:
What about the hypercrites? Those who commit to their role so thoroughly that they forget that "all the world's a stage". That way lies madness. The hypercrites overshoot the mark. They don't know how to be merely authentic. They strive for some unattainable super-authenticity.

There must be some middle way between these two extremes; there must be a way to be neither a hypocrite nor a hypercrite.

I am a crite.



This is great. Some never take the mask off and others forget they are wearing one. We slide between the plus sign and the negative sign.

Also like the "crite." Thesis-antithesis-synthesis? Devil take the foremost?
 
Deckard
 
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 01:17 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;131760 wrote:
This is great. Some never take the mask off and others forget they are wearing one. We slide between the plus sign and the negative sign.

Also like the "crite." Thesis-antithesis-synthesis? Devil take the foremost?


Well I don't want to condemn the hypercrites to hell, nor the luke warm hypocrites. The former likely mean well or truly believe that they do and the later likely aren't sure what they mean or truly believe.

It is a question of equilibrium which I think is fundamentally different from the synthesis that is the negation of the negation. That's an interesting thread idea: "synthesis vs. equilibrium". Is that Hegel vs. Aristotle?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 24 Feb, 2010 01:23 am
@Deckard,
Deckard;131766 wrote:

It is a question of equilibrium which I think is fundamentally different from the synthesis that is the negation of the negation. That's an interesting thread idea: "synthesis vs. equilibrium". Is that Hegel vs. Aristotle?


Sounds promising. Yes, equilibrium is a better description in this case.
 
Fido
 
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 05:14 pm
@sometime sun,
Used to be part of Greek drama; correct.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 06:03 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;131585 wrote:
Is a hypocrite all bad?

Does not by being one mean you have learned something different and greater?

Are we not all hypocrites unless we have all learned all there is to be complete?


And going from the assertion that no one person can be complete, becasue we must always learn change evolve into something new and different (something more the same) mean that we are all hypocrites, unless we stop learning?

Perhaps the only non-hypocrites are the dead or retarded?





- Charles Baudelaire




You know it, my reader, my delicate monster,
Hypocrite reader, my self, my brother.


(Les Fleurs de Mal)
 
Twirlip
 
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 06:05 pm
@Fido,
Sadly, none of the plays of Hypocrites (c. 480-420 BC) have survived.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 06:53 pm
@Twirlip,
Twirlip;133391 wrote:
Sadly, none of the plays of Hypocrites (c. 480-420 BC) have survived.


How do you know that is sad?
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 06:56 pm
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;131696 wrote:
Being a hypocrite is bad. It may, however, be better than actually doing what one claims to believe, if one claims to believe very bad things. But it would be better to be honest and not claim to believe such bad things.

Then perhaps we are not all white, perhaps we are all to some degree 'bad'.
If you dont do it, if you aren't 'it' than you dont believe it or your belief is not worth the protests spent.
If you believe in something if you practice it even if bad you are still being honest, at least to what makes you be what you are.

Can you be more honest?
Can you be less hypocrite?
Your honesty is not everyone elses even if it should be, they will just have to be a hypocrite until they believe in your honesty, and you a hypocrite until you believe someone elses?
Until a universal translation and interpretation of everything can be agreed upon we ar eall in some degree hypocrites to the one or to the other.
Hypocrite is to change ones mind to become more or less honest.
Who holds the truth but that which believs it?


Pyrrho;131696 wrote:

Being a hypocrite is a form of dishonesty.

And to no longer be one, or to still be one but in a different way means you are more honest.
Honesty has little to do with hypocracy.
Can you tell a lie honestly?
Can you believe untruth?
Is being honest any thing to do with truth.
Truth not just being a matter of opinion or belief, truth being a matter of facts.
All hypocrites until all are living, believing, honestly the facts and the truth.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 07:00 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;133406 wrote:

All hypocrites until all are living, believing, honestly the facts and the truth.


Why would you think that all hypocrites don't think they are hypocrites? (If that is what you happen to mean). Many of them do.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 07:35 pm
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;131701 wrote:
I am tempted to just say "no", but instead I will ask, what do you mean, and why would you suppose that people always pretend?

We all pretend because no one as yet has all the answers and proof of them, no one as yet has become the ultimate non-hypocrite, the ultimate truth, unlesss we are talking about the examples of Buddah Christ Mohammed (P.B.U.H)
We were not them, we can try to be but until we are all just pretending to catch up with our belief.
This does not answer what you ask completely i know, but will think or remember the answer soon.
But i will say that i dont believe anyone trusts themselves and the world and their existence, trusts everything that is without at least accpeting a truth blindly.
No one can understand everything all the time from its conception to its destruction, we must rely upon 'accpeted truth' we must pretend even if we dont pretend to understand something we must pretend to accept it.
I hope this comes closer to answering, becaus eyou asked a really hard question to answer even though i know it is the truth, or am i just making an estimation, a generalisation, a pretence?
The world lives on generalisations, could not survive without it, at least could not understand it or come close, you dont understand everything, you must generalise, you must pretend.

Pyrrho;131701 wrote:

If one is a male politician who picks up men in airports to have sex with them, one can avoid being rampantly anti-homosexual in one's public pronouncements. And that is all it would take to avoid hypocrisy about that issue; keeping one's mouth shut about the issue would be all that it would take.

It is all a question of honesty, and some people are honest, while some are very dishonest, and many are honest much of the time, but not all of it. You may have noticed different levels of honesty in other people. Some people are very hypocritical, while others are not. If all of the people you know are a bunch of lying hypocrites, I suggest you make some new acquaintances, and select them differently from the way you have selected the people you know.

He is being a hypocrite because he is doing something whilest hiding it, while not accepting the truth of it, truth is total exposure, is understanding, and if you were not a hypocrite in the scene you would no thave the need to hide it from the self or the world.
Can you understand something, accept it and believe it and not trust it is a truth for the all not just the my.
A hypocrite to me is someone or thing that which professes to be something but is in fact not that thing because it is wrong.
I think i am coming closer to what you are expressing, you think a hypocrite is soemone who professses soemthing but does something else, and this is true, but i am saying hypocracy is definace or ignorance against all that is 'true', and that one day if we trust our nature to seek out and find said truth becoming more complete is to become less hypocritical.
I suppos ei am talking about the universal hypocracy, that which is done against the truth of the matter, they not not what they do means they are not hypocrites because they still live in untruth, but to find and uncover the truth would thereofr ego against what they originally believed thus being a hypocrite because they have changed and have gone agaisnt whatt they once saw as truth but now have been proven otherwise.
All hypocrites because we dont hold the whole truth, not becaus eyou are still trusting the lie.
Possibly all hypocrites in training.
Because one day we may all find the real truth so will have to abandon the lie (the dishonesty you speak of) and become a hypocritical in th eprocess of becomin gmore truthful.
But you are right not all hypocrites go from one less truth to the next more truth, all depending on belief and faith and the pretence.
One day we will all be proven wrong, the best of us wont fight in the face of truth and hypocracy exposed.
The best of us will accept it and become less of a hypocrite.
Are you a hypocrite if you practice the wrong as a right? Is what i hear you asking.
I say yes, i say we are all hypocrites untill we are all either proven right or are all proven wrong. Because to be wrong even if you believe it is still being worng. And the hypocracy will come when we all start being more right. Our nature is to change and discover truth because to live better is to live off of on truth, we all change and to be the best hypocrite is to see that we are one until none of us are. To be the worst hypocrite is to have truth shown to you and deny it, deny your innate hypocracy that to believ one thing one day may not be the best thing to believe tomorrow.
Do you understand what i am getting at?
But you may be correct, maybe hypocracy is not evolution, going against the beliefs practices of yesterday, perhaps you could find a word that would fit what i have tried to describe that which is not hypocracy?

We are all hypocrites until we can no longer change our minds and practices.
That is what any mind was made for, to change.

Thanks for your time

---------- Post added 02-28-2010 at 01:40 AM ----------

kennethamy;133407 wrote:
Why would you think that all hypocrites don't think they are hypocrites? (If that is what you happen to mean). Many of them do.

I dont, whether they believe it or not all are still hypocrites until all are not.
At least they are less hypocritcal about their hypocracy.

---------- Post added 02-28-2010 at 01:44 AM ----------

Deckard;131758 wrote:
What about the hypercrites? Those who commit to their role so thoroughly that they forget that "all the world's a stage". That way lies madness. The hypercrites overshoot the mark. They don't know how to be merely authentic. They strive for some unattainable super-authenticity.

There must be some middle way between these two extremes; there must be a way to be neither a hypocrite nor a hypercrite.

I am a crite.

Until all have proved and are proven is crite made.
I am a hypocrite because i dont have all the answers yet believe that what i have is enough until i am proven and prove right.
Can one be more right?

---------- Post added 02-28-2010 at 02:09 AM ----------

kennethamy;133390 wrote:


- Charles Baudelaire




You know it, my reader, my delicate monster,
Hypocrite reader, my self, my brother.


(Les Fleurs de Mal)


Je connais un peu assez pour savoir comment ne pas etre un hypocrite.
Mais pas assez grand pur ne pas etre encore un.

I know a little enough to know how not to be a hypocrite.
But not yet big enough to not yet be one.

(Le parfum du ciel)
(The scent of Heaven) sometime sun

---------- Post added 02-28-2010 at 02:20 AM ----------

kennethamy;133405 wrote:
How do you know that is sad?

Depending on what, how and why it was lost, stopped or killed.
 
awareness
 
Reply Sun 7 Mar, 2010 06:13 pm
@sometime sun,
a hypocrite is a person that refuses to recognize the condition about them self that when recognized and moved on past can allow them to grow and find the truth about who/what they are. It is basically an impediment. What you do not realize is that you are complete and always have been. you are just lost in your own creations about what you think you are and not what you really are. you will find your completeness when you are finished playing in this universe and are ready to return to the source of your existence.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sun 7 Mar, 2010 06:26 pm
@awareness,
awareness;137339 wrote:
a hypocrite is a person that refuses to recognize the condition about them self that when recognized and moved on past can allow them to grow and find the truth about who/what they are. It is basically an impediment. What you do not realize is that you are complete and always have been. you are just lost in your own creations about what you think you are and not what you really are. you will find your completeness when you are finished playing in this universe and are ready to return to the source of your existence.

We dont all recognise the all I am.
None of us knows ourself completely.
We are still in the dark, we still pretend, we still lie, we still hide.
We are still all hypocrites, some are just more hypocritical and hide form this fact also.
Can you be more hypocritical?
Can you be more correct?
Just a hypocrite, just correct, no 'more' about it?
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Thu 18 Mar, 2010 04:45 am
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;131585 wrote:
Is a hypocrite all bad?

Does not by being one mean you have learned something different and greater?

Are we not all hypocrites unless we have all learned all there is to be complete?


And going from the assertion that no one person can be complete, becasue we must always learn change evolve into something new and different (something more the same) mean that we are all hypocrites, unless we stop learning?

Perhaps the only non-hypocrites are the dead or retarded?
A good virtue for diplomatic encounters, specially useful in politics ..else things can quickly get out of hand if not possessed.
 
 

 
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