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I'm considering philosophy at university.

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Hi,

I am a secondary school student who is considering studying philosophy at university. I want to take my philosophy to a deeper level and get a better understanding of the world and life, more than get a good job and earn lots of money. I think it will also be good to combine it with other subjects, like politics. I am fascinated by the PPE course at Oxford at the moment.

Do you think doing philosophy at university is a good idea? Or is it not
because I can study it on my own later and it won't help me very much in getting a job? (as someone has advised me previously)

And as different universities probably have different styles of teaching, where do you think is the best place? The ranking website I have looked at tell me that Harvard is at the top. Cambridge is top in UK, apparently. (I'm not bothered what country it's in.)

Is there anyone who is studying / has studied philosophy at university here? I'd love it if you could tell me what it's like and whether you recommend it!

Thanks Smile

@Shinhyung,

What if part of your better understanding of the world and life is that it's important to have a job you like?

@Shinhyung,

Shinhyung;125459 wrote:

Hi,

I am a secondary school student who is considering studying philosophy at university. I want to take my philosophy to a deeper level and get a better understanding of the world and life, more than get a good job and earn lots of money. I think it will also be good to combine it with other subjects, like politics. I am fascinated by the PPE course at Oxford at the moment.

Do you think doing philosophy at university is a good idea? Or is it not
because I can study it on my own later and it won't help me very much in getting a job? (as someone has advised me previously)

And as different universities probably have different styles of teaching, where do you think is the best place? The ranking website I have looked at tell me that Harvard is at the top. Cambridge is top in UK, apparently. (I'm not bothered what country it's in.)

Is there anyone who is studying / has studied philosophy at university here? I'd love it if you could tell me what it's like and whether you recommend it!

Thanks

Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Berkeley, are all fine. And so are others in the United States. In the UK it is Oxford, Cambridge, and the University of Londdon (especially University College). There is someone on this forum who is at Oxford (Somerville). I wss at Corpus Christi a long time ago. Do I recommend it? Of course.

@Shinhyung,

Shinhyung;125459 wrote:

Hi,

I am a secondary school student who is considering studying philosophy at university. I want to take my philosophy to a deeper level and get a better understanding of the world and life, more than get a good job and earn lots of money. I think it will also be good to combine it with other subjects, like politics. I am fascinated by the PPE course at Oxford at the moment.

Do you think doing philosophy at university is a good idea? Or is it not
because I can study it on my own later and it won't help me very much in getting a job? (as someone has advised me previously)

And as different universities probably have different styles of teaching, where do you think is the best place? The ranking website I have looked at tell me that Harvard is at the top. Cambridge is top in UK, apparently. (I'm not bothered what country it's in.)

Is there anyone who is studying / has studied philosophy at university here? I'd love it if you could tell me what it's like and whether you recommend it!

Thanks

When I went to university, I majored in Philosophy and History and minored in a few other things at a national level school (and one regional).

The first, most important, thing you have to consider is what you are genuinely interested inAnother thing to consider is where you want to go with the degree you pick. For instance, if you (for example) wanted to study law (in the US) and get a Juris Docrate, you can pick almost any degree, as long as you do well in it. If you wanted to become a philosophy professor, you would have to major or minor in philosophy, enter a master's program (level 2 undergraduate which typically takes 1-2 years) specifically for philosophy, and then enter into a Ph.D. program (1-3 years). I don't know how it works in England, but this is what I found out along the way. Typically, I don't think that the degree guarantees you a good paying job. However, doing philosophy in conjunction with a technical or scientific major is next to gold in terms of getting into a graduate school.

Is doing philosophy at university a good idea? Honestly, mostly yes and partly no. It is a good idea to do philosophy in university if you have a clear and determined track which will fully utilize the degree. Like I previously said, you could consider law, teaching philosophy, and a few other choices as well. But that seems to be the rub with philosophy, which is that unless you have a clear track for a profession, it is not really a good idea (money wise) to major in philosophy alone unless you are a really dynamic person, which you probably are. As an example, there is this one guy called Timothy Sykes that is a sort of investing pseudo-guru who majored in philosophy (I think Tulane-local 3rd tier)and does investing tutorials and videos now. He makes a lot of money. That just goes to show that you can major in philosophy and be rich and successful in the process if you are dynamic.

But the one thing to understand is that philosophy is a little different in university than what many seem to think it is. It isn't really as much what you want to say on the subject be really what others have said about a subject and then you cross reference and critique those philosophers, interjecting your own thoughts much later in your university career. Academic philosophy in university is a lot like studying history and law really. If you like that, then by all means, it is the thing for you.

As to the different styles of teaching and universitiesIn summation. So essentially, I would go for the philosophy degree if you know what you want to do with it and the profession you wish to pursue. Academic philosophy is a whole different animal than most tend to think it is, so be careful to fully evaluate your choices, or at least try it out before you commit 100% to it. Do not fall into high ranked school traps. The schools are great, but the prices are as well. If you can afford it, by all means go about it, but honestly, you can find superb philosophy departments in lower ranked schools that give you the best bang for your buck. And with the economy as it is now (and for the next few years), it's a rough thing to deal with.

@Shinhyung,

Shinhyung;125459 wrote:

Hi,

I am a secondary school student who is considering studying philosophy at university. I want to take my philosophy to a deeper level and get a better understanding of the world and life, more than get a good job and earn lots of money. I think it will also be good to combine it with other subjects, like politics. I am fascinated by the PPE course at Oxford at the moment.

Do you think doing philosophy at university is a good idea? Or is it not
because I can study it on my own later and it won't help me very much in getting a job? (as someone has advised me previously)

And as different universities probably have different styles of teaching, where do you think is the best place? The ranking website I have looked at tell me that Harvard is at the top. Cambridge is top in UK, apparently. (I'm not bothered what country it's in.)

Is there anyone who is studying / has studied philosophy at university here? I'd love it if you could tell me what it's like and whether you recommend it!

Thanks

Don't know much about English schools, but I know enough about the states:

If you can get into Harvard, then go for it. Its a great school, and you will be surrounded by amazingly smart kids. They also are great with financial aid. That said, alot of the "best" colleges obtain their rankings by having faculty who are regularly published. They bring in teachers for their research and publishing reputation, but not necessarily for their work with students.

For example, the most prestigious philosophy prof as USC (my school) teaches 1 class every two semesters.

The best advice I have heard, time and time again, is that for humanities stuff like philosophy, for undergrads, it is much better to choose based on the strength of the total undergrad experience than to try and compare philosophy programs.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend UC Berkeley because you will have to pay extra for being an international.

If this is for your undergrad, then I would

1) Check the schedule of classes to make sure they have a decent selection of cool classes to take. If you have a specific genre of philosophy that you want experience in, check for that.

2) Look at The Philosophical Gourmet Report 2009 : Welcome for a feel of how prestigious the faculty will be

@Shinhyung,

If you like philosophy you will probably be good at it. Of course, you cannot do philosophy from scratch, and simply say what you want about the subject, for the same reason you cannot do physics from scratch and say what you want about physics. You don't know anything about either subject. Somehow people seem to think that you needn't know anything to philosophize, but you have to know physics to do physics. I don't know why, but they do. And it often shows when they try to philosophize.
There may be lower ranked schools with good philosophy departments, but, in general, it is more probable that good schools have good department over-all. If money is really not a consideration, then go for Harvard, or Yale, or Princeton, in the United States, and for Oxbridge in the UK. Besides, a lot of education depends on other students you can talk to, and learn from, and the best student are at the best places.

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;125480 wrote:

Besides, a lot of education depends on other students you can talk to, and learn from, and the best student are at the best places.

I mostly disagree with this. Often, it is not the best students at the best places, but the richest students at the best places. Sure, many of the best students are at the best schools, but there are also a large percentage of students that have their future secured by their families riches, and thus, put minimal to no effort in their schooling.

Some of the best students I have encountered in school were at community colleges. Just because a school is not ranked on some list does not mean that the students there are of a lower quality. Not to mention, some very good professors teach at schools that no one has ever heard of due to there being less politics for them to deal with.

@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus;125528 wrote:

I mostly disagree with this. Often, it is not the best students at the best places, but the richest students at the best places. Sure, many of the best students are at the best schools, but there are also a large percentage of students that have their future secured by their families riches, and thus, put minimal to no effort in their schooling.

Some of the best students I have encountered in school were at community colleges. Just because a school is not ranked on some list does not mean that the students there are of a lower quality. Not to mention, some very good professors teach at schools that no one has ever heard of due to there being less politics for them to deal with.

Maybe. I wouldn't know. The best places pay the most money. And the best places have the highest admittance standards. That is why they are the best places. As the experience of one person, your data are limited.

@Shinhyung,

Something about your post seems to say you are seeking answers about life, to help you decide what you wish to do with your own? If that assumption is correct majoring in philosophy is not a good idea. You'll have 3 years of learning all about known philosophers and they history of philosophy and perhaps one to see how your own ideas relate to that which has gone on before you.

Truth be known, if you are seeking to know and understand yourself better - this will happen no matter which course of study you take at university Smile

Not sure which other courses might appeal to you at universtity? Seek the help of others who have a career in that fields, start with something you've already done well with at a lower level. Of course don't take it lightly -- educations are expensive and you really don't want to be 75% done with getting a degree and start over if you can help it right?

That place you find yourself at today - it's probably the most difficult with which you will ever have to deal - don't let anyone tell you differently. We know you feel pressured and have sense that time is running out for a decision...it isn't - take as much time as you need.

Lost1

@Lost1 phil,

Lost1;125740 wrote:

Something about your post seems to say you are seeking answers about life, to help you decide what you wish to do with your own? If that assumption is correct majoring in philosophy is not a good idea. You'll have 3 years of learning all about known philosophers and they history of philosophy and perhaps one to see how your own ideas relate to that which has gone on before you.

Truth be known, if you are seeking to know and understand yourself better - this will happen no matter which course of study you take at university

Not sure which other courses might appeal to you at universtity? Seek the help of others who have a career in that fields, start with something you've already done well with at a lower level. Of course don't take it lightly -- educations are expensive and you really don't want to be 75% done with getting a degree and start over if you can help it right?

That place you find yourself at today - it's probably the most difficult with which you will ever have to deal - don't let anyone tell you differently. We know you feel pressured and have sense that time is running out for a decision...it isn't - take as much time as you need.

Lost1

But not more than you need.

@Shinhyung,

Lost1 is wrong. Developing a well articulated philosophy is probably the best thing you can do for having a firmly established sense of self. Otherwise you will just be floating aimlessly out in the world without a sense of self. You're not going to develop a well grounded sense of self and your position in the world studying mathematics for 4 years, although you'll probably be good at calculus.

@amist,

amist;125989 wrote:

Lost1 is wrong. Developing a well articulated philosophy is probably the best thing you can do for having a firmly established sense of self. Otherwise you will just be floating aimlessly out in the world without a sense of self. You're not going to develop a well grounded sense of self and your position in the world studying mathematics for 4 years, although you'll probably be good at calculus.

Where in the world would you study just mathematics for four years? Most (competent) bachelor degree programs have comprehensive liberal arts requirements. Most of the math majors I have met do not wander a scorched earth, searching aimlessly for meaning and substance. (though they tend not to understand the subtleties of the mind/body problem)

@Shinhyung,

Yeah okay, you're going to get 9 hour of philosophy and a few history/polisci classes? You're right, that's totally enough to make you a well rounded person with a well established identity of self. Simply dabbling or even minoring in philosophy is only dipping your toe in the water if your search is of the nature of the OP's. And don't you dare act like I'm saying anything crazy when I talk about people who have graduated with masters degrees and have huge houses and cars and prestigious jobs and are miserable with their lives. It's not because of anything external that's making them miserable, they simply lack the philosophical skills to even determine who they are as selves in most cases, let alone develop a comprehensive system of values that can stand up on its own.

@Shinhyung,

amist - I'm sorry if I've unintentionally stepped on your toes.

When someone has determined who they are, and have developed a comprehensive system of values which can stand up on its own , they seldom if ever come across as angry. And almost never have the desire to use someone else's assumed failure(s) to prove themselves correct.

I'll let Shinhyung take all the advise given here and decide for his/herself which is of greater value for themself.

Lost1

@Shinhyung,

Where did all this 'good system of values=never getting emotional or being sarcastic about anything' tripe start up? Anyways this is getting to be a tangent.

@Shinhyung,

Shinhyung;125459 wrote:

Hi,

I am a secondary school student who is considering studying philosophy at university. I want to take my philosophy to a deeper level and get a better understanding of the world and life, more than get a good job and earn lots of money. I think it will also be good to combine it with other subjects, like politics. I am fascinated by the PPE course at Oxford at the moment.

There are things other than philosophy to study if you want "a better understanding of the world and life". Biology and other sciences come to mind. Please do not misunderstand me; I am not saying that you ought not study philosophy; I am merely pointing out that there are some things about your professed interests that would be better served by also studying other subjects.

Shinhyung;125459 wrote:

Do you think doing philosophy at university is a good idea?

If you are interested in it, then go ahead. I would not, however, recommend declaring a major area of study until you need to do so, or have a good motive for doing so.

Shinhyung;125459 wrote:

Or is it not because I can study it on my own later and it won't help me very much in getting a job? (as someone has advised me previously)

It rather depends upon the job you are wanting, doesn't it? If you want to become a philosophy professor, it will be a bit difficult getting such a position without studying philosophy in a college or university.

However, if you are wanting to do something else, you might want to consider being a double major, with your second major being in some subject relevant to whatever it is that you want to do for work. But there is nothing wrong with taking classes in other subjects that interest you.

Shinhyung;125459 wrote:

And as different universities probably have different styles of teaching, where do you think is the best place? The ranking website I have looked at tell me that Harvard is at the top. Cambridge is top in UK, apparently. (I'm not bothered what country it's in.)

Is there anyone who is studying / has studied philosophy at university here? I'd love it if you could tell me what it's like and whether you recommend it!

Thanks

Probably, you want to go to whatever school has the top ranking for whatever subject that will be relevant to whatever job you want, assuming that you can afford it and can get in. Any of the fairly highly rated schools will be able to provide you with a good education. And if learning is the only thing that matters, then you can learn by going to a school that is not highly rated, though the quality of instruction tends to be more variable at lower level schools, though there is some variability whenever one compares a class taught by one person versus another.

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