"All philosophers drink"

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Pyrrho
 
Reply Wed 27 Jan, 2010 06:42 pm
I stated what follows privately to someone, and thought some of you here might be amused by it.

[INDENT][INDENT]All philosophers drink. Most, if not all, philosophers drink wine, at least occasionally. Usually, it is more than just occasionally. This has been the case as long as there have been philosophers. Here you can read a very famous ancient work in which the proper method of doing philosophy is illustrated:

Online Library of Liberty - SYMPOSIUM. - The Dialogues of Plato, vol. 1

Socrates, who is virtually universally admired by philosophers everywhere, drank quite heavily, according to the accounts by Plato. He is a model of what a philosopher is. All philosophers drink. There are no exceptions.[/INDENT][/INDENT]

The question is, can anyone name a famous philosopher who did not drink? In order to qualify, the person must be known primarily as a philosopher, not merely someone who dabbled in ideas associated with philosophy, and one will need to provide some sort of evidence that the person did not drink. So, people who were primarily scientists or theologians or anything else other than philosophers do not count.

It should be obvious why this is in the lounge.Wink
 
Jebediah
 
Reply Wed 27 Jan, 2010 07:00 pm
@Pyrrho,
I imagine some of the more religious minded philosophers didn't drink. Buddhism is against intoxicating substances I think.

Of course, most people drink.
 
VideCorSpoon
 
Reply Wed 27 Jan, 2010 07:17 pm
@Jebediah,
I would suppose most if not all Islamic philosophers such as Mohammad Azadpur and Fazlur Rahman (to name a few) do not drink. The evidence is simply the fact that as an Islamic scholar (or even a Muslim as I understand), you are not allowed to drink. I looked up some verses in the Koran, and one says, "O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, Of Satan's handiwork: Eschew such (abomination) that ye may prosper. (Al Maeda; 5:90)"
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Wed 27 Jan, 2010 08:08 pm
@VideCorSpoon,
So I'm going to assume that my delusion of fame coupled with my not drinking discounts me.
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Thu 28 Jan, 2010 09:18 am
@VideCorSpoon,
Jebediah;123140 wrote:
I imagine some of the more religious minded philosophers didn't drink. Buddhism is against intoxicating substances I think.

Of course, most people drink.



Buddhism is a religion. And even if it did count:

How does the Buddhist religion view drinking alcohol? - Yahoo! Answers

Mindful Drinking? (Vajrayana tradition: Alcohol & Buddhism) | elephant journal


VideCorSpoon;123142 wrote:
I would suppose most if not all Islamic philosophers such as Mohammad Azadpur and Fazlur Rahman (to name a few) do not drink. The evidence is simply the fact that as an Islamic scholar (or even a Muslim as I understand), you are not allowed to drink. I looked up some verses in the Koran, and one says, "O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, Of Satan's handiwork: Eschew such (abomination) that ye may prosper. (Al Maeda; 5:90)"
Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But even he would not count anyway, as he was not primarily a philosopher.

Remember, the claim does not apply to anyone who is not primarily a philosopher. Rather than get into a squabble about what it means to be a philosopher, which would be a contentious issue, I will simply require that most ordinary reference works refer to the person as a philosopher first in their descriptions, not as a theologian and philosopher, or a mathematician and philosopher, or anything else and philosopher.
 
Khethil
 
Reply Thu 28 Jan, 2010 09:21 am
@Pyrrho,
That'd be a generalization; one whose relevancy is questionable, to say the least.

Also, there exists the distinct possibility that there might be people who don't drink for reasons other than religion.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 28 Jan, 2010 09:28 am
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;123138 wrote:
I stated what follows privately to someone, and thought some of you here might be amused by it.
[INDENT][INDENT]All philosophers drink. Most, if not all, philosophers drink wine, at least occasionally. Usually, it is more than just occasionally. This has been the case as long as there have been philosophers. Here you can read a very famous ancient work in which the proper method of doing philosophy is illustrated:

Online Library of Liberty - SYMPOSIUM. - The Dialogues of Plato, vol. 1

Socrates, who is virtually universally admired by philosophers everywhere, drank quite heavily, according to the accounts by Plato. He is a model of what a philosopher is. All philosophers drink. There are no exceptions.[/INDENT][/INDENT]The question is, can anyone name a famous philosopher who did not drink? In order to qualify, the person must be known primarily as a philosopher, not merely someone who dabbled in ideas associated with philosophy, and one will need to provide some sort of evidence that the person did not drink. So, people who were primarily scientists or theologians or anything else other than philosophers do not count.

It should be obvious why this is in the lounge.Wink


I don't believe Wittgenstein or G. E. Moore drank adult beverages. Most philosophers, like most people, have an occasional AB. If that is what you have in mind by"drinking".
 
Caroline
 
Reply Thu 28 Jan, 2010 09:30 am
@Pyrrho,
I occasionally will have a white wine spritzer but other than that I don't like to get drunk, just on occasions. Smile
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Thu 28 Jan, 2010 10:02 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;123242 wrote:
I don't believe Wittgenstein or G. E. Moore drank adult beverages. Most philosophers, like most people, have an occasional AB. If that is what you have in mind by"drinking".


By "drink", I mean "consume a beverage or beverages containing alcohol". No specific quantity or frequency is required. Of course, if one wishes to be like Socrates, then drinking quite a lot will be required!

What are the sources of your information that Wittgenstein and G.E. Moore did not drink?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 28 Jan, 2010 10:15 am
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;123252 wrote:
By "drink", I mean "consume a beverage or beverages containing alcohol". No specific quantity or frequency is required. Of course, if one wishes to be like Socrates, then drinking quite a lot will be required!

What are the sources of your information that Wittgenstein and G.E. Moore did not drink?


I read it at one time. I don't recall the source. In any case, W. was an aescetic. It is very unlikely that he drank.
 
VideCorSpoon
 
Reply Thu 28 Jan, 2010 11:36 am
@kennethamy,
Pyrrho;123238 wrote:
Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But even he would not count anyway, as he was not primarily a philosopher.


Does that mean that a scholar of Christianity is not the same thing as a philosopher either? St Thomas Aquinas springs to mind. He is touted as one of the greatest of the medieval philosopher-theologians. He was deeply involved in the religious aspects of his time (hell, the guy is a saint), and he was also heavily involved in philosophical debates in logic, metaphysics, epistemology, philosophy of mind, moral philosophy, as well as the philosophy of religion. Likewise, Al-Kindi, the "philosopher of the Arabs," was renown in his day and even now for his translations and interpretations of Aristotle and the incorporation of those elements into his own particular philosophies and he was a devout Muslim.

And honestly, if you state that "being Islamic does not preclude the possibility of not following all the rules that others dictate
Pyrrho;123238 wrote:
Remember, the claim does not apply to anyone who is not primarily a philosopher. Rather than get into a squabble about what it means to be a philosopher, which would be a contentious issue, I will simply require that most ordinary reference works refer to the person as a philosopher first in their descriptions, not as a theologian and philosopher, or a mathematician and philosopher, or anything else and philosopher.

Ok, then as an example of Al-Kindi, he wrote, "The Quantity of Books of Aristotle and What is Required for the Acquisition of Philosophy." I don't want to get into a squabble either about what it means to be a philosopher, because excluding philosophers that also theologize or vice versa is absurd to say the least.
 
xris
 
Reply Thu 28 Jan, 2010 01:37 pm
@VideCorSpoon,
If you judged a philosopher by the amount of red wine he drank, im the best there is. It does loosen certain parts of the brain into thinking laterally but you must do it sitting down. I just wonder if any one notices the difference.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Fri 29 Jan, 2010 07:11 pm
@Pyrrho,
Wikipedia has Nietzsche on the list of famous teetotalers. (Is this right?) Also Isaac Asimov and Bruce Lee but I guess they don't count. I'd say Pythagoras was a philosopher and he wouldn't even eat beans much less take a drink.

List of teetotalers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also Vid mentioned Aquinas though in a different context. He's definitely a philosopher but I think I recall Aquinas having a reputation as quite a drinker at least in his youth. But in those days though it was often safer to drink the mead than the water.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 02:00 am
@Pyrrho,
I drink. I couldn't study philosophy without it. There is only so much crap I can cram in my brain before I need to drink to remove it. I think the main problem with many popular philosophers is that they did not drink enough or at all. Maybe if they had a drink here and there they would have realized that life is too serious to take seriously all the time.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 06:53 am
@VideCorSpoon,
VideCorSpoon;123274 wrote:


Does that mean that a scholar of Christianity is not the same thing as a philosopher either? St Thomas Aquinas springs to mind. He is touted as one of the greatest of the medieval philosopher-theologians. He was deeply involved in the religious aspects of his time (hell, the guy is a saint), and he was also heavily involved in philosophical debates in logic, metaphysics, epistemology, philosophy of mind, moral philosophy, as well as the philosophy of religion. Likewise, Al-Kindi, the "philosopher of the Arabs," was renown in his day and even now for his translations and interpretations of Aristotle and the incorporation of those elements into his own particular philosophies and he was a devout Muslim.

And honestly, if you state that "being Islamic does not preclude the possibility of not following all the rules that others dictate


Someone can be both a scholar and a philosopher, certainly. Just as someone (Spinoza) can be both a lens maker and a philosopher. But a lens maker need not be a philosopher, nor a philosopher a lens maker; and a scholar need not be a philosopher, nor a philosopher a scholar.The terms are not exclusive, nor are they inclusive.

---------- Post added 01-30-2010 at 07:55 AM ----------

Theaetetus;123618 wrote:
I drink. I couldn't study philosophy without it.


That explains a lot. Thank you.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 08:26 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus;123618 wrote:
I drink. I couldn't study philosophy without it. There is only so much crap I can cram in my brain before I need to drink to remove it. I think the main problem with many popular philosophers is that they did not drink enough or at all. Maybe if they had a drink here and there they would have realized that life is too serious to take seriously all the time.
Drink can be used as a stress buster, it's nice to have one now and again but I used to drink a lot, I gave it up for my health.
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 08:37 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;123661 wrote:
Drink can be used as a stress buster, it's nice to have one now and again but I used to drink a lot, I gave it up for my health.
Has that girl escaped yet Caroline? I cant sleep thinking about the poor thing.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 08:43 am
@xris,
xris;123664 wrote:
Has that girl escaped yet Caroline? I cant sleep thinking about the poor thing.
Lol Xris, no she was trapped in there..........forever!
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 08:45 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;123666 wrote:
Lol Xris, no she was trapped in there..........forever!
Your orrible just pretend she escaped so I can sleep nights. I wont tell anyone, promise.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 30 Jan, 2010 08:59 am
@xris,
xris;123667 wrote:
Your orrible
Lol, yeah I know, suck it up.Smile
 
 

 
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