Reconstruction

  1. Philosophy Forum
  2. » General Discussion
  3. » Reconstruction

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 02:23 pm
Why dont we just reconstruct the pyramids?
why dont we make them the glory of egypt they once were but still have the chance to be again?
before they are gone all together back to the sand and lime they were built from.
Why dont we just fix them all up? (this goes for other wonders left to ruin),
even if we used the methods that were used to build them in the first place (i think it is called sympatheticly).
Why is it so shocking and not a done thing to not only preserve but to resurrect?
 
VideCorSpoon
 
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 03:48 pm
@sometime sun,
Excellent topic!!!! . I have a great variety of mixed feelings on these issues, partly because I have seen many of my favorite ancient ruins in person and have also studied what they looked like in their prime. I use three examples; the Parthenon in Athens, Pompeii in Italy, and the Flavian Amphitheater in Italy (what we know commonly as the Colosseum).

In the case of the Colosseum, you have an issue with restoring something which has been far longer identified in its ruinous state than it ever was in its full and completed state. The Colosseum only spent about 150 years of its life in a full and complete form, until fire and a devastating earthquake damaged far beyond repair (both in extent and capacity) in the early 400's C.E. But even before the earthquake, fire had destroyed and weakened much of the marble facade, revealing the stone and indigenous tufa stone beneath. And in an interesting factoid, did you know that marble can actually burn? But following Rome's fall and the literal regression of civilization (dark ages), the Colosseum stood as a monolith of a bygone alien people. Seriously. One theory points out that the advanced ruins such as the Colosseum provided a prime motivating force to regain lost technological capabilities and aesthetic know how. It stood as a reminder of what we had achieved and lost. Local Roman art and architectural attempts in some parts mimicked the remains of ancient buildings, like arches, flying buttresses, etc. The Vatican, incidentally, stripped much of the surviving marble from the Colosseum to put on St. Peters Basilica. So to answer one of your points, to reconstruct something like the Colosseum would deny what the gradual decay of the great monument continually contributed to civilization.

In the case of the Parthenon in Greece

In the case of Pompeii in ItalySo essentially, we all have to get our stuff together before we can ever hope of reconstructing these valuable relics of the past.

Pompeii is a fairly huge site. In fact, roughly 70% of the city has been excavated. The rest is unfortunately under a particularly valuable portion of vineyard (volcanic soil makes for good vino) and Naples itself. But the question is why? Apparently, the land was leased because the authorities in control of the site know that they cannot take care of the site to begin with... so they leave it covered by more than 16 feet of dirt (see pic 1 below). (my pic of Via dell abbondanza, region 3, sub 2).
http://i47.tinypic.com/2j3ferr.jpghttp://i46.tinypic.com/29uxgsl.jpg
 
Jebediah
 
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 03:57 pm
@VideCorSpoon,
I think it's an interesting question as well.

I suppose we like things to be authentic. A forgery of a van gogh that looked just as good would be worth far less. Should it be? It feels like it should, but reasonably I would have to say they are worth the same.

I'm not sure there's a reason to repair the pyramids though, "falling apart" isn't inherently a bad thing. And it's difficult to get the aged look with new stone.
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 05:22 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;118272 wrote:
Why dont we just reconstruct the pyramids?
why dont we make them the glory of egypt they once were but still have the chance to be again?
before they are gone all together back to the sand and lime they were built from.
Why dont we just fix them all up? (this goes for other wonders left to ruin),
even if we used the methods that were used to build them in the first place (i think it is called sympatheticly).
Why is it so shocking and not a done thing to not only preserve but to resurrect?

If they couldn't afford to build them when labor was free, what makes anyone think we will be able to pay to have them fixed..

Besides, as I think Vonnegut said: Back then, gravity was lighter...
 
Amperage
 
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 06:25 pm
@sometime sun,
Indeed this is an interesting topic.

I know with at least some of the wonders, the actual skill required no longer exists. We could build something that would be similar but it would not be done with the mastery or precision of those who built it.
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 08:12 pm
@sometime sun,
Bushet...It does not matter what they build, they could use GPS now and put it on the money... I have plumbed up a lot of buildings, and tried to bring back a few that were already gone, but even then we had to be closer than that...I worked on one story job that was real sloppy...The building was plumbed from the North End and my brother and I set the stairs... We had that so close you could look straight down between the hand rail from the eighteenth floor like the barrel of a rifle...
 
VideCorSpoon
 
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 09:01 pm
@Fido,
 
Amperage
 
Reply Thu 7 Jan, 2010 09:09 pm
@VideCorSpoon,
VideCorSpoon;118401 wrote:

simply amazing. Every time I think about stuff like that. Those people were no less smart than people today(maybe on the average we are but still), they just focused on different things.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 04:51 am
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;118272 wrote:
Why dont we just reconstruct the pyramids?
why dont we make them the glory of egypt they once were but still have the chance to be again?
before they are gone all together back to the sand and lime they were built from.
Why dont we just fix them all up? (this goes for other wonders left to ruin),
even if we used the methods that were used to build them in the first place (i think it is called sympatheticly).
Why is it so shocking and not a done thing to not only preserve but to resurrect?


The aesthetic value of ruins is much appreciated by artists and poets. For example consider this painting by Caspar David Friedrich. When you look at it does this make you want to reconstruct the ruins or can you see the beauty in them that is the direct result of their delapidation?

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/his/CoreArt/art/resourcesd/fri_clcem.jpg


Also consider the Japanese aesthetic of wabi-sabi

Wabi-sabi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
William
 
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 06:24 am
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;118272 wrote:
Why dont we just reconstruct the pyramids?


Why?

sometime sun;118272 wrote:
why don't we make them the glory of egypt they once were but still have the chance to be again?
before they are gone all together back to the sand and lime they were built from.


Exactly what was it about Egypt that is glorious? For that matter what is it that is so beneficial to the world that has ever come out of those civilizations surrounding ALL such pyramids? Most of those civilizations have become "extinct". Why? Good question!

When in comparison we see the beauty that is the landscape of so much of the rest of the world, we hold to this desert wasteland as significant; in what measure other than it is old and to call it Holy is even more non-sensical. Perhaps it is in a very negative way as can be understood in what we were to what we are becoming. Just dead weight.

If you ask me they are not disappearing fast enough. Let's hope the "Langoliers" do eventually get them, ha!

sometime sun;118272 wrote:

Why is it so shocking and not a done thing to not only preserve but to resurrect?


Honestly sun, I think that is what is being done and that is why the world is in the shape it is in. No, let us not give them glory in any respect. Yes, we do find a measure of curiosity in antiquity and of course if we don't understand our past we will horrifically repeat it. Considering the weapons we are now fighting with, we are at a brink, a precipice if you will and ascertaining what that will be if we do indeed repeat it, is difficult to comprehend.

If you will do a little research yourself and browse "sacrifice, worship of animals and what anthropomorphic representations" are all about and the "gods" of those antique civilizations.

I promise you sun, there is much about our past that needs to be buried my friend. We do have the knowledge to make those barren wastelands fertile and in that respect I do agree with what can be defined as "resurrecting" those waste lands. As far as the resources it would take to rebuilt the pyramids, could be better spent in making those areas fertile.

In my opinion it would be a gross waste of resources to rebuild them. Of course that would be no surprise, we are doing that now, wasting resources, and that which is reason why we are doing that came out of the knowledge that originated in those very wastelands you want to honor. Such as this is a doomed world and life awaits for us in another one. When we cling to that, it is no wonder this one is in the shape that it is as can be understood in the phrase "going to hell in a handbasket". (See list).

William
 
VideCorSpoon
 
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 10:56 am
@William,
Deckard;118454 wrote:
The aesthetic value of ruins is much appreciated by artists and poets. For example consider this painting by Caspar David Friedrich. When you look at it does this make you want to reconstruct the ruins or can you see the beauty in them that is the direct result of their delapidation?


Another thing that comes to mind and also compliments your point is the value of ruins in literature (beyond poetry that is) as well. J.R.R. Tolkien in The Lord of the Rings, as well as his other books, made specific references to the highly thought out layers of ruins and rebuilt structures throughout his world. Minas Tirith (the big, multi level city in the last movie) for example has layers upon layers of meaning and history intertwined in it. This book I have by Davis Day, The World of Tolkien, describes Minas Tirith as a city constantly destroyed and rebuilt, but in the end a final testament to a previously destroyed and rebuilt civilization of Numenor. The author says the city is an analogy of Constantinople and its fall to the Turks... and the wealth of Greek influence that went with it. But there are many other examples though, like weathertop and the gates of Gondor. Something neat to think about.

http://i47.tinypic.com/wvr8sm.jpg
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Fri 8 Jan, 2010 08:12 pm
@VideCorSpoon,
The restoration of today will be the archeology of tomorrow,
what we leave behind for others to discover is our duty as much as tomorrows surprise.
Surely intervention is needed if we want tomorrow to have anything left to discover for them selves, they will be able to tell what we did, but we need to give them the chance to think what we couldn't by there still being an example left to find things in.
Ruins are indeed poetic and beautiful, but once something is dust it cannot teach anything other than wind.
 
 

 
  1. Philosophy Forum
  2. » General Discussion
  3. » Reconstruction
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.02 seconds on 04/24/2024 at 07:37:37