Things to look for in a philosophy forum

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Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 11:59 am
  • A place to talk and show knowledge
    - Other people's thoughts and theories (Or one's thoughts and theories on other people's)
    - One's thoughts and theories


  • A place to search for information
    - On third persons (famous philosophers), possibly for academic research of some kind.
    - On other's members theories and thoughts about a particular problem.


  • A place to find company
    - People who might think like one
    - People to discuss with / be witty against
    - People who might like one
    - People who might be trying to solve the same existential problem as one


  • A place to test theories (against other members' opinions and thoughts)


  • A place to enlighten others


Some other possibility? What were you looking for when you joined? What have you found?
 
Quinn phil
 
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 12:13 pm
@BeatsMeWhy,
BMW;115316 wrote:
  • A place to talk and show knowledge
    - Other people's thoughts and theories (Or one's thoughts and theories on other people's)
    - One's thoughts and theories


  • A place to search for information
    - On third persons (famous philosophers), possibly for academic research of some kind.
    - On other's members theories and thoughts about a particular problem.


  • A place to find company
    - People who might think like one
    - People to discuss with / be witty against
    - People who might like one
    - People who might be trying to solve the same existential problem as one


  • A place to test theories (against other members' opinions and thoughts)


  • A place to enlighten others


Some other possibility? What were you looking for when you joined? What have you found?


I think you've got it. Most of this stuff is what I joined for. Maybe understanding? I guess you mentioned that already. Yeah, you've got it all.
 
Fido
 
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 09:26 pm
@BeatsMeWhy,
BMW;115316 wrote:

  • A place to talk and show knowledge
    - Other people's thoughts and theories (Or one's thoughts and theories on other people's)
    - One's thoughts and theories

  • A place to search for information
    - On third persons (famous philosophers), possibly for academic research of some kind.
    - On other's members theories and thoughts about a particular problem.

  • A place to find company
    - People who might think like one
    - People to discuss with / be witty against
    - People who might like one
    - People who might be trying to solve the same existential problem as one

  • A place to test theories (against other members' opinions and thoughts)

  • A place to enlighten others

Some other possibility? What were you looking for when you joined? What have you found?

What; virginity not make your list??? For many that is too easily found...But ; I'm old, so I am always looking for something....I should probably be more specific...
 
VideCorSpoon
 
Reply Tue 29 Dec, 2009 10:23 pm
@Fido,
BMW,

That's actually a very concise list BMW, props! One of the few things I would add to the list of things to look for in a philosophy forum would be quality. I remember looking through quite a few forums in past when I first stumbled upon philosophy forum, and it was quality that set this forum out from a lot of the others. Of course, the community is very welcoming and a majority of the members are all very intelligent in their own right, but I would say quality is one of the primary things (at least I) look out for. I think I have definitely found quality from a good deal of members and very glad I joined.

Fido;115444 wrote:
What; virginity not make your list??? For many that is too easily found...But ; I'm old, so I am always looking for something....I should probably be more specific...

WTF?
Seriously though... WTF?
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 06:18 am
@VideCorSpoon,
Was I supposed to be serious???Isn't it a little like asking what you are looking for in a cookie jar???
 
VideCorSpoon
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 09:48 am
@Fido,
Fido;115526 wrote:
Was I supposed to be serious???Isn't it a little like asking what you are looking for in a cookie jar???
(about)
 
Arjuna
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 10:21 am
@VideCorSpoon,
I once accidently made fun of the one thing that a listener was touchy about. And I just went on and on, even though people were giving me the eye. When I found out later, I just wanted to sew my mouth shut.

In order to live with it, I decided that from then on, nothing about me could be out of the reach of humor. I would have to laugh at myself. Sometimes it's a lot harder than I thought it would be.

But it sometimes pops me out of my own melodrama. But I believe what the greek dude said: be kind, for people you meet might be fighting a difficult battle. We challenge each other, we support each other. That's part of human contact.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 11:52 am
@Fido,
Fido;115444 wrote:
What; virginity not make your list??? For many that is too easily found...But ; I'm old, so I am always looking for something....I should probably be more specific...


Fido, have you forgotten to take your medication today? WTF is right. Seriously, you have topped yourself with this one.
 
VideCorSpoon
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 11:59 am
@Arjuna,
I suppose the moral of this whole side story is that we (I am am certainly not excluded from this) should all try to stay within the context of the OP's thread and point. Otherwise, that side story deserves its own thread. Wit and subtlety, no matter how inside or righteous they seem, are certainly not prohibited within most threads up to a point. However, the implicit intent of the OP should remain paramount as it is after all their thread to begin with and the catalyst for the discussion. I am sure BMW put much thought and effort into his/her post, and we should put as much in ours as well. Whether or not off-comments should remain in a post of a somewhat genuine nature is debatable. But we should all remember to respect the intentions of the OP and keep the context in a manner befitting the degree in which the OP intends.
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 12:40 pm
@BeatsMeWhy,
And this is confirmed by the facts; for it was when almost all the necessities of life, and the things that make for comfort and recreation had been secured, that such knowledge began to be sought...Evidently then we do not seek it for the sake of any other advantage; as the man is free we say who exists for his own sake and not for another's, so we pursue this (Philosophy) as the only free science, for it alone exists for its own sake... Aristotle, Metaphysics

I would suggest that philosophy is what people do, and have done so long as they have been people... Since we must conceive of reality to reform it to our liking we must always be in the business of checking our concepts and ideas against reality...Ask what people seek in philosophy and you get some form of abstraction for an answer...Disregard the answer, because people never know for what they do...Life is the goal of philosophy, because truth is life...
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 12:51 pm
@Fido,
Fido;115605 wrote:
And this is confirmed by the facts; for it was when almost all the necessities of life, and the things that make for comfort and recreation had been secured, that such knowledge began to be sought...Evidently then we do not seek it for the sake of any other advantage; as the man is free we say who exists for his own sake and not for another's, so we pursue this (Philosophy) as the only free science, for it alone exists for its own sake... Aristotle, Metaphysics

I would suggest that philosophy is what people do, and have done so long as they have been people... Since we must conceive of reality to reform it to our liking we must always be in the business of checking our concepts and ideas against reality...Ask what people seek in philosophy and you get some form of abstraction for an answer...Disregard the answer, because people never know for what they do...Life is the goal of philosophy, because truth is life...


What has this to do with you making a crude joke about seeking virgins?
 
VideCorSpoon
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 02:42 pm
@Fido,
Fido;115605 wrote:
And this is confirmed by the facts; for it was when almost all the necessities of life, and the things that make for comfort and recreation had been secured, that such knowledge began to be sought...Evidently then we do not seek it for the sake of any other advantage; as the man is free we say who exists for his own sake and not for another's, so we pursue this (Philosophy) as the only free science, for it alone exists for its own sake... Aristotle, Metaphysics


Interestingly enough Fido, there is a contextual issue here. The quote that you mention indeed comes from Aristotle Metaphysics, but more precisely book Alpha, sub section 2, IP-982b; 22-29. That quote is not as much in reference to the reverence of the pursuit of philosophy for its own sake (a superficial misreading I might add), but more to the point why the people that preceded Aristotle (such as Hesiod) deserve props for trying (even though they are wrong) if the entire book is read in context (including Alpha lessor 2). Look at the preceding statement of Aristotle (refer to the end of the post for the exact line). Men like Hesiod thought outside the box, and for that deserve praise, but if it were the case that philosophy is merely people with random thoughts with no aim, then the goal of metaphysics is sorta pointless (like the goals of origination [lambda], substantial ontology [Zeta], etc.). Honestly, I thought Aristotle tried kinda hard (especially in those books) to derive some sort of concrete notions.
Fido;115605 wrote:
I would suggest that philosophy is what people do, and have done so long as they have been people... Since we must conceive of reality to reform it to our liking we must always be in the business of checking our concepts and ideas against reality...Ask what people seek in philosophy and you get some form of abstraction for an answer...Disregard the answer, because people never know for what they do...Life is the goal of philosophy, because truth is life...
we must conceive of reality to reform it to our likingMetaphysics, which is not as much abstract but an genuine attempt to address ontological, etc. issues via scientific processes. However, I do have to say props to you for a response to the original topic though and for that I thank you. It reminds me of the preceding quote of your own;

"Whoever is perplexed and wonders thinks himself ignorant. Hence, even the lover of myths is in a way a lover of wisdom, for a myth is made up of wonders." (Aristotle, Metaphysics, Alpha, 2/IP 982b; 17-20)
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 03:08 pm
@BeatsMeWhy,
BMW;115316 wrote:
  • A place to talk and show knowledge
    - Other people's thoughts and theories (Or one's thoughts and theories on other people's)
    - One's thoughts and theories


  • A place to search for information
    - On third persons (famous philosophers), possibly for academic research of some kind.
    - On other's members theories and thoughts about a particular problem.


  • A place to find company
    - People who might think like one
    - People to discuss with / be witty against
    - People who might like one
    - People who might be trying to solve the same existential problem as one


  • A place to test theories (against other members' opinions and thoughts)


  • A place to enlighten others


Some other possibility? What were you looking for when you joined? What have you found?


I would like a place where unpopular ideas are not censored.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 03:22 pm
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;115673 wrote:
I would like a place where unpopular ideas are not censored.


There is a difference between calling people that have faith stupid, and actually making a good argument against faith.
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 03:29 pm
@Zetherin,
Zetherin;115609 wrote:
What has this to do with you making a crude joke about seeking virgins?

Seeking lost virginity ding dong...It must be around here some place...Who said anything about virgins...Is some one planning to dump one in a volcano or something and not invite me???
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 03:33 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus;115677 wrote:
There is a difference between calling people that have faith stupid, and actually making a good argument against faith.


Do you really want to discuss that here? If you, as a moderator, regard this as an appropriate place to discuss the issue you have introduced, I am willing to do so. But if not, then please do not bring up topics in threads where you do not wish to discuss them.

As for my earlier post in this thread, it was generic, and intended to be so. It is doubtful that very many people would have thought that it had any negative reference to this site without you suggesting that it did.
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 04:09 pm
@VideCorSpoon,
VideCorSpoon;115661 wrote:
Interestingly enough Fido, there is a contextual issue here. The quote that you mention indeed comes from Aristotle Metaphysics, but more precisely book Alpha, sub section 2, IP-982b; 22-29. That quote is not as much in reference to the reverence of the pursuit of philosophy for its own sake (a superficial misreading I might add), but more to the point why the people that preceded Aristotle (such as Hesiod) deserve props for trying (even though they are wrong) if the entire book is read in context (including Alpha lessor 2). Look at the preceding statement of Aristotle (refer to the end of the post for the exact line). Men like Hesiod thought outside the box, and for that deserve praise, but if it were the case that philosophy is merely people with random thoughts with no aim, then the goal of metaphysics is sorta pointless (like the goals of origination [lambda], substantial ontology [Zeta], etc.). Honestly, I thought Aristotle tried kinda hard (especially in those books) to derive some sort of concrete notions.

I think I got him right, that he thinks philosophy is a higher pursuit because it is not a direct pursuit...It is not aimed a particular goal, but at a general understanding, which according to him demands a specific understanding of form, because in his book form precede reality...Clearly, none of these people could own up to philosophy as luxury built upon slavery... To day we think some virtue will come out of the vice of greed, and they must have thought some good would come out of idling while the world worked..


Quote:
we must conceive of reality to reform it to our likingMetaphysics, which is not as much abstract but an genuine attempt to address ontological, etc. issues via scientific processes. However, I do have to say props to you for a response to the original topic though and for that I thank you. It reminds me of the preceding quote of your own; "Whoever is perplexed and wonders thinks himself ignorant. Hence, even the lover of myths is in a way a lover of wisdom, for a myth is made up of wonders." (Aristotle, Metaphysics, Alpha, 2/IP 982b; 17-20)
Certainly, mythology is a branch of philosophy...

To your main question, the practical value of philosophy as it has went on without the philosopher is a very practical one... The conception of the world is essential to the recreation of the world... As we understand so can we build...If a man can build a box he can build a house, and I know because I have built both..He must be able to concieve of a box, and he builds on the concept as much as on the ground...Now; see through this paradigm... All change, and all progress for humanity requires a change of forms... When man first moved from cave to dungeon, the act was a change of forms, which also required a change of mind...We cannot change what is basic to our nature; Not the fact that we need food, fresh water, and air, for example... Because we cannot change we must adapt by way of forms, and concepts... We must out smart nature...

Aristotle was looking back a few hundred years and giving the history of philosophy to date... He missed every thing prehistory, even while he was living on top of complex technologies that had been built upon simple understandings of nature...All we do is philosophy, because out of philosophy we make our world... Apart from it being a pursuit of leasure, it is a life or death exercise of discipline...People do not think because it is easy...The brute rebels at anything new the way a put pup shrinks from a rag in a bush...We prize what is old, and fear new because new means death...This thing we do is a gamble... It is just better than taking our chances with not even a roll of the dice...

I want to tell you guys something besides... There is a lot of pc around here even when people do not understand what they are attacking...My attitude is that if one person in a crowd of a million gets struck with lightning and there is a God, then that man is a phiosopher and he is toast... What ever our God, it has been the philosopher who has the courage to doubt, and it may be that Christians and Muslims between them broke the noses off of many mighty idols; but only because no philosopher would bother....

---------- Post added 12-30-2009 at 05:19 PM ----------

Pyrrho;115673 wrote:
I would like a place where unpopular ideas are not censored.

Civility is a form, you know, like a structure for a relationship, with certain rules... I won't censor you... At the same time if some one is being offensive to be offensive, not just daring unpopular thoughts, but waving them because they reject all of society, then they have a point I don't want to get... I want humanity to survive together, and I am willing to accept some forms if they keep people off each others throats...The less I like some one the more formal I become, as a reminder that forms exist for a certain purpose, and some times that purpose is to hide our contempt behind a thin veneer......
 
Ichthus91
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 07:02 pm
@BeatsMeWhy,
I joined because it's fun to discuss deep intellectual subjects.
 
VideCorSpoon
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 07:22 pm
@Ichthus91,
Fido;115687 wrote:
I think I got him right, that he thinks philosophy is a higher pursuit because it is not a direct pursuit...It is not aimed a particular goal, but at a general understanding, which according to him demands a specific understanding of form, because in his book form precede reality...Clearly, none of these people could own up to philosophy as luxury built upon slavery... To day we think some virtue will come out of the vice of greed, and they must have thought some good would come out of idling while the world worked..

And I think you are fully entitled to interpret how you choose (and use the ellipsis as a substitution for a period). It's for lack of a better word a free-ish forum. But please read book Alpha, because it is actually a very good, short, and explicit reference to both his preceding philosophical heritage and a preview of the subsequent books to come. And it is very important to remember that form is a Platonic
Fido;115687 wrote:
Certainly, mythology is a branch of philosophy...

Myth is a branch of philosophy, but as far as Aristotle is concerned, it is a flawed precursor. This is made very clear in Book Alpha.
Fido;115687 wrote:
To your main question, the practical value of philosophy as it has went on without the philosopher is a very practical one... The conception of the world is essential to the recreation of the world... As we understand so can we build...If a man can build a box he can build a house, and I know because I have built both..He must be able to concieve of a box, and he builds on the concept as much as on the ground...Now; see through this paradigm... All change, and all progress for humanity requires a change of forms... When man first moved from cave to dungeon, the act was a change of forms, which also required a change of mind...We cannot change what is basic to our nature; Not the fact that we need food, fresh water, and air, for example... Because we cannot change we must adapt by way of forms, and concepts... We must out smart nature...

My main point, rather, was that there is a contradiction that needs to be addressed. I do not see any form of redress here, but the thought is well noted though.
Fido;115687 wrote:
Aristotle was looking back a few hundred years and giving the history of philosophy to date... He missed every thing prehistory, even while he was living on top of complex technologies that had been built upon simple understandings of nature...All we do is philosophy, because out of philosophy we make our world... Apart from it being a pursuit of leasure, it is a life or death exercise of discipline...People do not think because it is easy...The brute rebels at anything new the way a put pup shrinks from a rag in a bush...We prize what is old, and fear new because new means death...This thing we do is a gamble... It is just better than taking our chances with not even a roll of the dice...

Noted epideictics aside, Alpha is essentially an examination of past examinations in elements beyond Aristotle's physics. I don't know to whom this appeal to philosophy is directed towards, but it seems out of place.
Fido;115687 wrote:
I want to tell you guys something besides... There is a lot of pc around here even when people do not understand what they are attacking...My attitude is that if one person in a crowd of a million gets struck with lightning and there is a God, then that man is a phiosopher and he is toast... What ever our God, it has been the philosopher who has the courage to doubt, and it may be that Christians and Muslims between them broke the noses off of many mighty idols; but only because no philosopher would bother....

What?
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 30 Dec, 2009 10:13 pm
@BeatsMeWhy,
In quoting Aristotle I was not saying he was correct; and far from it; and Plato was not in the least better, but each was methodical, and each sought concepts, forms, as the basis of knowledge, as far removed from the practical as possible...They were great in their time, but Gallileo pointed out that the ages following him were slavish in their deference to the philosopher, even when they knew they could read anything into him, essentially using him to prove either side of an argument... It is instructive to read those guys but only as lesson to find a new method... What is the alternative??? Knowledge is virtue to one, and power to another... Some people have no more desire for knowledge than they can profit by it... I would say that knowledge, truth, is life...The only reason worth troubling for it is that it may some day preserve what we most value...

---------- Post added 12-30-2009 at 11:17 PM ----------

VideCorSpoon;115744 wrote:
And I think you are fully entitled to interpret how you choose (and use the ellipsis as a substitution for a period). It's for lack of a better word a free-ish forum. But please read book Alpha, because it is actually a very good, short, and explicit reference to both his preceding philosophical heritage and a preview of the subsequent books to come. And it is very important to remember that form is a Platonic

I said something about looking for virginity, and people were climbing all over me because they thought I was talking about virgins...I know I mis spell, but learn to read folks before you go off half cocked...
 
 

 
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