Unofficial Philosophers

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Theaetetus
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 09:21 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;110125 wrote:
It does not seem to me that authors who put philosophical digressions (whatever those may be) are therefore philosophers.

The part I don't understand is what it is to use philosophy as a tool. Logic is a tool. Mathematics is a tool. But philosophy?

Considering that logic falls under the umbrella of philosophy wouldn't that make philosophy a tool of sorts by its virtue of consisting of logic?

Philosophy has two aspects. An academic subject of study and an activity. I am not talking about the subject Philosophy when I say that philosophy can be used as a tool. The activity of philosophy is the process of using critical thinking, reasoning, logic, and argumentation to arrive at conclusions. It is not necessary to be an academic Philosopher to use this tool, and thus, the idea of the unofficial philosopher.

Thus, there are the philosophers that study Philosophy, and there are the intellectuals that use philosophy in their work. We are making a list of the latter. (as a digression, I have had Philosophy professors that were not philosophers but rather historians.)
 
Emil
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 09:58 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus;110149 wrote:
Considering that logic falls under the umbrella of philosophy wouldn't that make philosophy a tool of sorts by its virtue of consisting of logic?


Logical Fallacy: Composition

Though it doesn't have the form listed there:
[INDENT]All of the parts of the object O have the property P.
Therefore, O has the property P.
(Where the property P is one which does not distribute from parts to a whole.)
[/INDENT]But this instead:
[INDENT]Some of the parts of the object O have the property P.
Therefore, O has the property P.
(Where the property P is one which does not distribute from parts to a whole.)
[/INDENT]As in:
[INDENT]Some of the parts of the philosophy have the property being a tool.
Therefore, philosophy has the property being a tool.
(Where the property being a tool is one which does not distribute from parts to a whole.)[/INDENT]
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 10:03 am
@Reconstructo,
You could still say philosophy is a tool figuratively. Not everything in language is intended literally, so that fallacy needn't apply.

And I think you both knew what he meant. And if you knew what he meant, and we're speaking conversationally here (which I supposed we were in this particular thread in the 'General Discussion' sub-form), I don't see the problem.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 10:06 am
@Emil,
Emil;110166 wrote:
Logical Fallacy: Composition

Though it doesn't have the form listed there:[INDENT]All of the parts of the object O have the property P.
Therefore, O has the property P.
(Where the property P is one which does not distribute from parts to a whole.)
[/INDENT]But this instead:[INDENT]Some of the parts of the object O have the property P.
Therefore, O has the property P.
(Where the property P is one which does not distribute from parts to a whole.)
[/INDENT]As in:[INDENT]Some of the parts of the philosophy have the property being a tool.
Therefore, philosophy has the property being a tool.
(Where the property being a tool is one which does not distribute from parts to a whole.)[/INDENT]


I am not trying to make an argument. I am just differentiating between the activity and the subject of philosophy. Not to mention, just because something may fit the criteria of a fallacy does not automatically make it a fallacy. For example, you can appeal to the emotions and not have it be fallacious (e.g. see Martin Luther King Jr "Letter from Birmingham Jail").

But anyway, this discussion has nothing to do with fallacies and the merits or characteristics of what it means to be a philosopher. All it is is a discussion on intellectuals that can be considered philosophers outside the realm of academic philosophy. Why is that so difficult for some of you to comprehend?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 11:07 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus;110149 wrote:
Considering that logic falls under the umbrella of philosophy wouldn't that make philosophy a tool of sorts by its virtue of consisting of logic?

Philosophy has two aspects. An academic subject of study and an activity. I am not talking about the subject Philosophy when I say that philosophy can be used as a tool. The activity of philosophy is the process of using critical thinking, reasoning, logic, and argumentation to arrive at conclusions. It is not necessary to be an academic Philosopher to use this tool, and thus, the idea of the unofficial philosopher.

Thus, there are the philosophers that study Philosophy, and there are the intellectuals that use philosophy in their work. We are making a list of the latter. (as a digression, I have had Philosophy professors that were not philosophers but rather historians.)


Considering that logic falls under the umbrella of philosophy wouldn't that make philosophy a tool of sorts by its virtue of consisting of logic?

No more that because cinnamon is a tasty ingredient of a cake, the cake is tasty. (The fallacy of composition).

If you identify philosophizing with critical thinking, and critical thinking with logic, then yes. I hope that everyone uses critical thinking when he works. I wasn't clear then when you said that philosophy is a tool you meant only that logic or critical thinking (which is applied logic) is a tool. I believe I earlier mentioned that logic was a tool (in fact, Aristotle who invented the subject, discusses logic in his Organon which, as you know, means instrument or tool in Ancient Greek.
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 12:32 pm
@kennethamy,
Oh man gots to love the hijacked threads, i Just want to add one thing, GAH!
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 01:08 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead;110233 wrote:
Oh man gots to love the hijacked threads, i Just want to add one thing, GAH!


Yes, I am sorry. It was my fault. I just didn't want to mention a philosopher who was not really a philosopher.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 01:14 pm
@Reconstructo,
Here's a personal perspective that is also a sort of response to the thread hijackers. I'll call a philosopher whoever I want to call a philosopher. If there are folks out there who can't handle that, fine, but such a slavish by-the-book attitude is not something that appeals to me. Tristan Tzara fits in here yet again. DADA doesn't offer logic but rather irony and paradox both caustic and amusing, a corrective for the book-worship that afflicts too many of the half-educated "class" -- in which I put myself, for I am by no means done with my education. Smile


Zeth:

You mention the use of figurative language. I agree. This is the heart of my defense of rhetoric against logic. So much of our valuable communication is figurative, metaphorical. Especially in regards to wisdom. One thinks of the book of proverbs, or proverbs in general.....
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 01:26 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;110246 wrote:
. I'll call a philosopher whoever I want to call a philosopher.


.


I am fine with that. In which case I know that you do not mean much of anything by the term, "philosopher". But I can handle that. I am used to what you say.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 01:34 pm
@Reconstructo,
Apparently not, since you are desperate to hijack this thread. You should join the thread properly. It's not logical to be a Troll.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 01:39 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;110259 wrote:
Apparently not, since you are desperate to hijack this thread. You should join the thread properly. It's not logical to be a Troll.


Not another word. Carry on.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Fri 11 Dec, 2009 02:55 pm
@Reconstructo,
Impromptu Fantasias - by Joshua Cohen > Tablet Magazine - A New Read on Jewish Life


A link on De Casseres
 
Deckard
 
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 07:55 pm
@Reconstructo,
Oh, I've another name to drop:

Juan Luis Borges
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2009 08:37 pm
@Deckard,
Deckard;113637 wrote:
Oh, I've another name to drop:

Juan Luis Borges


He's written some wild stuff. I've only seen a little here and there, but it's enough to convince me of the man's gift.

Allow me to add Nabokov. Because in Ada he writes The Texture of Time, which is quite philosophical. It tackles memory especially.

Also Joseph Heller. In Picture This, he goes thru all sorts of Greek history and at the same time the history of painting. One of the main characters is a portrait of Aristotle. It's my favorite book by Heller. His style is at its purest.
 
taboo
 
Reply Mon 28 Dec, 2009 01:15 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;109935 wrote:
I would like to start a free-flowing discussion about our favorite thinkers who are not often thought of as philosophers. I'm always on the look-out for a great new personality to expose myself to. Perhaps we can trade little known writers with one another.


Here are a few of mine.


Friedrich Schlegel: His concept of the "transcendental buffoon" I found sublime. He's a strange brew of faith and irony, intuition and criticism. He was one of Hegel's favorite targets, but now seems mostly forgotten. Like Blake, he had prophetic ambitions. He wrote a book Lucinde that uses sexual symbolism for the transcendent. "Lucinde" derives from light. Yet again, Truth is described as a woman. He is sometimes described as a philosopher but rarely described at all.

Benjamin De Casseres: I discovered a 1930 edition of his Mencken/Shaw and it remains one of my favorite books. It's very much philosophy. He responds to Mencken whom he loves with enthusiasm and correction. De Cassere is a brew of the skeptic and the mystic, however strange this may sound. His final work remains unpublished. He's been almost forgotten. I recommend Mencken/Shaw to anyone who can find it.

Tristan Tzara: I think some of the Dada manifestoes are sublime, especially those written by Tzara. Paradox and irony touch their limits within. Dada is the transcendental buffoon prophesied by Schlegel. Motherwell assembled a great book of DADA manifestos. It's like the Tao on Nietzsche and Rubber Cement.

Looking forward to replies....



Did some one mention ma man George Carlin?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Mon 28 Dec, 2009 03:03 am
@Reconstructo,
Not yet, but Carlin is great.
 
 

 
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