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Philosophy Major?

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I'm technically an undeclared major at community college but have been taking lower division philosophy courses as though that was my major (some of them are compatible with general ed. requirements). My main area of interest is ethics, specifically applied ethics. However, I certainly have an economics affinity and have a recently developed interest in sociology also. My reasons for being in school also aren't to learn about the topics (as I consider myself an autodidact and prefer self-directed learning with the resources that I can select), but strictly to acquire professional credentials that can open doors later, whether in the category of teaching or providing social commentary, or w/e.

What I've seen, however, is that there isn't a great deal of respect for social commentators with credentials and training in philosophy. The most obvious example of an ethicist would be the utilitarian theorist Peter Singer, who is routinely declared wrong simply because of the radicalism of some of his positions. There's no attempt to engage him and little consideration that he might be worthy of respect because of his doctorate, as there would be with an economist, for example, but simply declarations that he's wrong. Since my focus was on professional esteem, as I mentioned, should I instead be interested in pursuing economics and/or sociology?

@Agnapostate,

In my opinion, you would be doing a disservice to yourself, your peers, and the tradition of learning (whatever that may be), to study something which is meant not to further your education, but to impress others. Of course, many students are in college just for this, and I think this is one of the biggest problems with our institutions...

With that said, there's nothing about a philosophy major that looks less 'professional' or esteemed than an economics or sociology major. The credential that employers look for is the BA/BS degree. Most aren't going to care what you majored in, as long as you got the degree, and had decent grades. If you are most interested in philosophy, it could indirectly help you to major in this, as you might have an easier time getting good grades while pursuing it.

And a bachelor's is usually just the start of your 'professional credentials' now, anyway. If you were to become a professional sociologist, you'd need a graduate degree in sociology. If you were to become an economist or finance employee at the higher levels, you'd need a graduate degree in economics, an MBA, or something similar. If you want to go into politics, high-level public service, or anything to do with the law, you should of course go to law school. And law schools are actually well-known for admitting a high percentage of philosophy majors.

@Agnapostate,

That there seems to be little respect for commentators with philosophical backgrounds is more a commentary on the times in which we live than upon the usefulness of looking at the world from that perspective, as is the seeming rejection of any "different" perspectives. Jaspers writes that philosophy always is guilty of disturbing the peace, and one must accept that role if one is to think philosophically.

There are two questions that should be addressed. First, will a undergraduate degree in philosophy be detrimental to a career to to specialisation depending on your ultimate interest? I agree with Pangloss that it will not, and for the reasons he presented.

The second question is whether philosophy will be of benefit in your later career or area of interest, should you decide to follow a different path. To this, I must answer emphatically (especially given your other interests) in the affirmative. Briefly, the ability to think, to read, and to write that philosophy teaches, and the ability to understand the interrelationships of the parts to the whole from different perspectives can only improve your own study of different branches of knowledge. The general themes of philosophy seem applicable to any humanistic study, and this application to specialised areas, would seem to enhance rather than detract from any learning about or communication of ideas or positions.
Having a BA in philosophy as a ground, and exploring possible areas of interest and specialisation for your advanced degree while getting it, seems in the long run to offer you the most "portability" for any future career.

@Agnapostate,

I am a philosophy major, but I plan on going to grad school for urban geography and urban planning. In many ways, I am better prepared than most people that came out of receiving a geography degree, because of the valuable skills I learned while working towards my philosophy degree. Philosophy truly helps you to read, write, and think critically much better. These are major keys in the world today, and employers look for them in potential hires.

@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus;103147 wrote:

I am a philosophy major, but I plan on going to grad school for urban geography and urban planning. In many ways, I am better prepared than most people that came out of receiving a geography degree, because of the valuable skills I learned while working towards my philosophy degree. Philosophy truly helps you to read, write, and think critically much better. These are major keys in the world today, and employers look for them in potential hires.

Moreover, philosophy majors have more acquaintance with different subjects than does any other major. They have to since in an important way, all other subjects are the subject of philosophy.

@Agnapostate,

Philosophy is also the one subject you can formally study where the emphasis is placed on how and why people engage in critical thought and reasoning. Other subjects tend to be more concerned with what is being thought, but not so much with the how and why leading up to the thought.

I think that the how and why are of the utmost importance, and if you agree, then philosophy is a great major for examining this further, within the formal education system.

Of course, real philosophy is done both formally and informally; like Socrates said, "the unexamined life is not worth living". Even the Eastern teachings of his near-contemporary, Buddha, essentially echo this sentiment, where meditation on our thought process and our existence must be a way of life. Philosophy was, is, and will continue to be the central inquiry of man.

@Agnapostate,

Don't give up philosophy if you don't want to. Another way is to consider a minor or a double major in another field like economics as you mentioned. Having a Bachelor Combined Major in both Philosophy and Economics would be beneficial for you as it opens more opportunities like MA in Philosophy or Economics or even a MBA based from an economics background.

@Victor Eremita,

Many thanks for the responses. I'm on the path to finishing my associate's degree work soon enough, and I've considered the path of a dual major or even a triple major in the past. I wouldn't be immediately interested in an MBA or DBA, at least not to the extent that I'd prefer a PhD in economics, because my focus is on political economy rather than business or the less related aspects of finance or banking.

I don't believe that my study of philosophy would be hindered by not pursuing formal instruction and certification, as my areas of interest are ethics and political philosophy, which I've always pursued independently simply because of their recreational appeal. I couldn't stand 20th century and continental work and found it extremely tiresome and pointless to write about Husserl, as anti-intellectual as that might sound. It certainly seems shallow to only pursue formal certification because of an interest in professional appeal, but my consequentialist ethical perspective does obligate me to think about what will cause me to have the most influence and effect.

@Agnapostate,

Hello, I'm new to this forum, and I'm interested in your post, because this has been my experience of people's attitudes to philosophy also. Mostly philosophy is a big turn-off at least here in the UK, whereas on the Continent philosophy is taught alongside other disciplines which makes sense. However, I'm not sure whether the Continental 'man in the street,' or the Continental employer regards philosophy relevant to the hard reality of the 'lived life.' On the positive side your knowledge of philosophy will give you a greater insight into most other vocations I can think of. Economics especially would benefit from a course in ethics, especially virtue ethics. Oh well !

I regard the Anglo Saxon/American attitude to philosophy as a reflection of the spirit of its particular scientific/technological age.

Best wishes, Dilys

@Dilys,

Quote:

...should I instead be interested in pursuing economics and/or sociology?

I'll be honest, I have to disagree with most of the comments here so far. To be blunt, were I you knowing what I now know, I would pursue economics as a major and philosophy and/or sociology as (a) minor(s) (if possible). Actually...I take it back...I would go into nursing.

But that's because nursing will be quite useful in the impending zombie apocalypse. ... Wink

Joking aside, as much as I hate to admit it...after schooling one has to enter the job market. One has a better chance of landing a job in a field with 10 other qualified candidates than one has with 50, and the phil major is competing not with other phil majors, but with bloody nearly every liberal arts major out there - the markets are flooded with them.

And it wouldn't be so bad if most of us didn't leave school with loans. As it is, I am about to graduate from university with a BA in Philosophy, pre-law emphasis, and roughly 30k in loans to pay off.

My choices are limited - I can...go to law school. I am qualified for any non-science-oriented job, but regarding a career path that will surely pay off those loans? It's either law school or something very unconventional (for information's sake, I'm taking the unconventional route - I do not believe I am law school material).

If obtaining my philosophy degree had been free, I would have zero regrets. It is not, however, and as such I do wish I had chosen a degree which would definitely earn me enough money to pay off loans and live a life - once doing that, I'd have time and money to pursue learning for learning's sake. To appreciate learning one must make sure that first level or so of Maslow is taken care of!

The important thing to me to remember about a philosophy degree is that it's a toolbox. No one will care that you can quote Aquinas...but they -will- care that you can use those critical thinking skills to solve problems at work that come up.

That is...pursue the formal learning in philosophy as a minor because it is truly not the material that is important - it's the writing of papers and getting feedback that's very different from an English prof's critiques, and the having to truly think through what one is writing and why one is writing it...that's what is important about this degree and it's formal training. You can't get that kind of feedback from reading on your own, unfortunately.

As to the respect level...One of my favorite things to observe is when I tell someone I'm majoring in philosophy and watching their reaction. It tells me how much they know about what it really means. Usually people ask what I'm going to do with -that-, but once in awhile someone will know that a philosophy degree isn't about what you're going to do because of it as much as it is what you're going to do with it.

I haven't really noticed the public at large either paying attention to or not paying attention to the ideas of those with a philosophy background, to be honest. Your average person just plain doesn't know who Singer is...and when it comes to many of your concerns, your "audience" so to speak will not be those who know who Singer is, metaphorically speaking Smile

So this was so rambly...it's late...erm, early, here...and I'm quite tired :p

@madel,

madel;106329 wrote:

I'll be honest, I have to disagree with most of the comments here so far. To be blunt, were I you knowing what I now know, I would pursue economics as a major and philosophy and/or sociology as (a) minor(s) (if possible). Actually...I take it back...I would go into nursing.

But that's because nursing will be quite useful in the impending zombie apocalypse. ...

Joking aside, as much as I hate to admit it...after schooling one has to enter the job market. One has a better chance of landing a job in a field with 10 other qualified candidates than one has with 50, and the phil major is competing not with other phil majors, but with bloody nearly every liberal arts major out there - the markets are flooded with them.

And it wouldn't be so bad if most of us didn't leave school with loans. As it is, I am about to graduate from university with a BA in Philosophy, pre-law emphasis, and roughly 30k in loans to pay off.

My choices are limited - I can...go to law school. I am qualified for any non-science-oriented job, but regarding a career path that will surely pay off those loans? It's either law school or something very unconventional (for information's sake, I'm taking the unconventional route - I do not believe I am law school material).

If obtaining my philosophy degree had been free, I would have zero regrets. It is not, however, and as such I do wish I had chosen a degree which would definitely earn me enough money to pay off loans and live a life - once doing that, I'd have time and money to pursue learning for learning's sake. To appreciate learning one must make sure that first level or so of Maslow is taken care of!

The important thing to me to remember about a philosophy degree is that it's a toolbox. No one will care that you can quote Aquinas...but they -will- care that you can use those critical thinking skills to solve problems at work that come up.

That is...pursue the formal learning in philosophy as a minor because it is truly not the material that is important - it's the writing of papers and getting feedback that's very different from an English prof's critiques, and the having to truly think through what one is writing and why one is writing it...that's what is important about this degree and it's formal training. You can't get that kind of feedback from reading on your own, unfortunately.

As to the respect level...One of my favorite things to observe is when I tell someone I'm majoring in philosophy and watching their reaction. It tells me how much they know about what it really means. Usually people ask what I'm going to do with -that-, but once in awhile someone will know that a philosophy degree isn't about what you're going to do because of it as much as it is what you're going to do with it.

I haven't really noticed the public at large either paying attention to or not paying attention to the ideas of those with a philosophy background, to be honest. Your average person just plain doesn't know who Singer is...and when it comes to many of your concerns, your "audience" so to speak will not be those who know who Singer is, metaphorically speaking

So this was so rambly...it's late...erm, early, here...and I'm quite tired :p

I must agree with Madel to some degree. Now retired, in my younger days I loved knowledge and Academia a bit too much, ending up with a BS in psychology, then changing majors THREE times in grad school (psychology, religion, philosophy). I was poorly prepared for the job market of my era and society,and ended up spending most of my working days at jobs I did not care for.

The philosophy majors in my grad classes were concerned about the post-graduate competition for university teaching jobs -- the old "publish or perish" problem. The job market for religion majors seemed equally dim. Having worked part-time in psychology throughout my school years, I'd come to realize that was not the right career for me. I was interested in abstract academic research, NOT actually dealing every day with the typical clinical patients I encountered.

If I had it all to do over again, I'd have obtained a secondary school teaching certificate in a subject where at least my varied areas of interest could have proven more useful. I might have made a decent teacher.

I really do believe it's important to examine one's strengths and interests as they relate to the future job market, and find the best combination or "fit" that not only makes use of one's interests but also gives one a good chace at earning a living in a career one does not despise.

rebecca

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