It is very easy to sway and manipulate a rationalist. All you have to do is act rational. That is what Bernie Madoff did.
Rich

Really? Explain please.

Doesn't have a thing to say, but he says it in such a rational way, and makes tons of money doing it. Every group needs its evangelist and someone to worship.

As for Bernie Baby. Well, he very rationally laid out his plans to make 15% a year return. He sounded great and all of his investors fell for it - $60 billion worth. Now, as for me - my gut feel was that no one can do it. So, even though I was invited many times in my life into these get rich schemes, by very rationally sounding people, my gut feeling has always kept me out of trouble.

Conning a rational person is easy. All you need to do is set up a set of rational arguments. It probably happens all the time when private enterprise introduces themselves into the scientific community.
Rich

If you were in a position to do the same thing, would you? Let's hypothetically say we're talking really big money here to evangelize about something you believe passionately.

Sounds like you didn't let greed overcome your common sense . . . like you asked yourself a very key question: "Does this sound too good to be true?" I won't make an assumption about your thought process, but I would guess that you ran something very much like a little "risk versus reward" program in your head (perhaps subconsciously) before reaching any conclusions. That seems pretty rational to me.

Is it more easy, and profitable, to con a rational person (say, one who believes in the weight of verifiable evidence) than a non-rational person (say, one who believes in angels and magic)?

I don't begrudge anyone for anything they do in their lives. It is all experimentation and a learning experience.

What is rational to me is not rational to others, including extremely large institutions who put large amounts of money into Madoff's fund. Their rationale was, "if other big institutions are doing it, it must be fine". Sound familiar. It is easy to be rational and use it when selling to rational people.

Not necessarily easier, but this rational people are easy to figure out, a good salesperson should be able to figure out a sales pitch pretty easily that works. It is more difficult to figure out a person who works on an emotional or gut level. You can come up with all of the rationales you can dream up and still get a big NO!

Gut feeling has saved me from lots of problems in my day. I do go through all information before I make a decision, but the final decision is based upon how I feel.

It isn't rational to act immorally - .

It isn't rational to act immorally - like Madoff.

I do enjoy Doonesbury.

What was missing was empathy and heart. And so goes the rational world.
Rich

This seems a bit judgmental, don't you think?

You gotta have heart
Miles and miles and miles of heart.

Maybe he'll develop some in his next life? If not, he'll be back on Wall Street.

Rich

But one could rationalize it.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.
You cannot have heart and have anything to do with Wall Street?

Rationality and having heart and empathy are mutually exclusive?

Are you saying we should be less rational?

What do you mean when you say, "and so goes the rational world?"

I'm trying to make rational sense out of what you are saying. Should I not do that?

So what? A person can rationalize to any conclusion, by any irrational means.

To say "Oh, but it seemed rational for him" does not in any way make what happened rational. By definition.

I can reason a way to successfully kill my mother - yet it is still irrational for me to justify such a thing (you know, morality and what not). Thus, it is irrational to kill her, despite my reasoning on how or why to do so.

Whose definition? Is there a universal and unchanging standard of what is rational? And if so, who decides what it is? What assurance would we have that they are thinking rationally?

Does morality supersede rationality?

Are morality and rationality mutually exclusive?

Can you think of any situation where your scenario of matricide could be both moral and rational?

How can we know that we are being rational? Can it be irrational to think we are being rational?

I'm looking forward to your insights,
Tock

There are fairly well established notions of rational thinking and discourse - the classic, most accepted example would be the law of non-contradiction.

No, I do not think so. We use (ideally) rationality as a tool by which to arrive at, and better understand morality.

Of course not - they seem very much related.

No - it involves killing another human being.

Man, I wish I had some insights for you.