The mind in the void

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JLClark
 
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2009 06:33 pm
@alcaz0r,
Really cool question to think about. I came here to say that if you are really interested into that D option of having control over a reality in your own consciousness, then look into lucid dreaming and how to induce it upon yourself. It's awesome.
 
William
 
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2009 06:33 am
@manored,
Hello Manored,

If I might suggest another to your list of possibilities: H: The mind at peace will perform perfectly, for that is all we are. The senses are it's accessories.
 
Khethil
 
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2009 06:41 am
@manored,
manored;83466 wrote:
I wonder what would happen to a human mind who was suddently cut from any sensorial input, left only to its own thoughs...


Immediately I'm reminded of a rather disturbing, yet awesome, classic read: Johnny Got his Gun, by Dalton Trumbo. A large part of this describes virtually this very condition after the main character is badly injured in battle.

Thanks
 
Yogi DMT
 
Reply Tue 25 Aug, 2009 07:35 am
@manored,
Being completely honest without any external input to create some sort of precedent for thought, the mind would actually have nothing to think about. Images couldn't be created due to the mind not knowing about any sense of visuals. The mind would be non-functioning and therefore clinically dead. Without any input to play around and work with, the mind wouldn't be thinking anything and therefore be dead. The mind, does in fact work and function off of the various input we receive from our senses.
 
manored
 
Reply Wed 26 Aug, 2009 02:21 pm
@Exebeche,
Exebeche;85444 wrote:
Now that you mention it i remember that my dreams are so vivid that i DO feel what i dream.
I once read that someone claimed you can easily check wether you dream or not, because our dreams are black and white, not in real colours.
I feel sorry for him.
When i dream it's all real.
Putting my hands into cold water, tasting a juicy red strawberry freshly picked from the ground, even the lips of somebody i kiss.
None of my senses is missing a single thing, on the contrary, in a dream it's sometimes even like concentrated on this particular sensation.
Basically it seems to me like the brain can generate qualia independently.
I think dreams varies a lot from person to person. Some people do dream in black & white for some reason, I heard. Personally my dreams, then I remember then (I usually dont, or for a short time, due to an infancy trauma related to constant nightmares) are highly chaotic and ever progressing, as in: In watching a car, now im in the car, now im driving the car, now I am the car, etc. Oddly, despite this I take long to notice its a dream, I then I notice the dream is dispelled at the merest peturbation, as if it had lost its vital force.

JLClark;85455 wrote:
Really cool question to think about. I came here to say that if you are really interested into that D option of having control over a reality in your own consciousness, then look into lucid dreaming and how to induce it upon yourself. It's awesome.
I dont have enough free time to try creating a world with the level of precision and detail I would want, I will leave that for afterlife =)

William;85522 wrote:
Hello Manored,

If I might suggest another to your list of possibilities: H: The mind at peace will perform perfectly, for that is all we are. The senses are it's accessories.
I dont believe in perfection, or, putting it another way, I think perfection is the same as nothing. If you are perfect, you have no necessity of doing anything, so you dont =)

Its like playing a chessgame with someone: then you win, your situation in the game becomes perfect and, thus, the game ends.

Yogi DMT;85544 wrote:
Being completely honest without any external input to create some sort of precedent for thought, the mind would actually have nothing to think about. Images couldn't be created due to the mind not knowing about any sense of visuals. The mind would be non-functioning and therefore clinically dead. Without any input to play around and work with, the mind wouldn't be thinking anything and therefore be dead. The mind, does in fact work and function off of the various input we receive from our senses.
The idea was that this mind would have already experience human life, but your point is still valid =)
 
Yogi DMT
 
Reply Wed 26 Aug, 2009 04:51 pm
@manored,
manored;85830 wrote:

The idea was that this mind would have already experience human life, but your point is still valid =)


Ahh i see, then that's a completely different idea :perplexed:. In that case i don't see why that mind would function in any other way then one big dream even while not asleep.
 
Phredderikk
 
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 12:51 pm
@manored,
There is a book (also as a movie) from the early 70's (?) called 'Johnny got his Gun'. It's about a soldier that gets wounded and loses his arms, legs, and face. He cannot see, hear nor speak. He does have physical sensation of vibrations, being touched, so it's not a perfect image of what the OP talked about. It is a sad, but interesting story. Trivia bit: Metallica used clips from the movie in their video for 'One' in 1989.

---------- Post added 09-03-2009 at 02:53 PM ----------

Khethil;85524 wrote:
Immediately I'm reminded of a rather disturbing, yet awesome, classic read: Johnny Got his Gun, by Dalton Trumbo. A large part of this describes virtually this very condition after the main character is badly injured in battle.

Thanks


I guess you beat me to it Very Happy
...of course I may have to go and read the book again now...

---------- Post added 09-03-2009 at 03:16 PM ----------

I believe the possibilities of what would happen is equal to the number of people to whom it could happen. I've heard it said that people die in much the same way they lived... if they were at peace in their life, they will likely die peacefully, if they were anxious, they will have fear in death... Being a person that has suffered from mental issues, such as depression and panic attacks, I believe my first stage would one of terror. Beyond that, I do not have any idea... I do believe that wakefulness and sleep would get confused, as some dreams seem so real that I have, in dreams, wished it WAS a dream.. then to my relief, I do wake up... It is an interesting thought though... I have thought of how to best step outside of the influence of culture and society ( for a time) and think of living a more primal, natural state of mind... may try some sort of meditation... but I really don't know how much one can really remove oneself' from the influence, and brainwashing of his current time and place....

---------- Post added 09-03-2009 at 03:25 PM ----------

Yogi DMT;85544 wrote:
Being completely honest without any external input to create some sort of precedent for thought, the mind would actually have nothing to think about. Images couldn't be created due to the mind not knowing about any sense of visuals. The mind would be non-functioning and therefore clinically dead. Without any input to play around and work with, the mind wouldn't be thinking anything and therefore be dead. The mind, does in fact work and function off of the various input we receive from our senses.


I think you have a very good point... basically, if we could grow a brain from scratch, depriving it of any experience whatsoever of the external, what sort of consciousness would it have?

In line with the OP, which spoke of a sudden 'cutting off', the brain would have prior experiences and concepts with which to work. It would seem that the 'world' of that brain would eventually become some sort of 'mindscape' composed of memories of those experiences... plus, if it maintains a knowledge of language, it could conceivably maintain a level of speculation, and development of new ideas based upon the 'mindscape' left over from the prior external experiences.

---------- Post added 09-03-2009 at 03:28 PM ----------

JLClark;85455 wrote:
Really cool question to think about. I came here to say that if you are really interested into that D option of having control over a reality in your own consciousness, then look into lucid dreaming and how to induce it upon yourself. It's awesome.


I've had a couple experiences of LD I think... knowing that you are dreaming, and being able to 'consciously' act as such while dreaming... of course I've had dreams in which I wished I was dreaming...
 
Exebeche
 
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 05:00 pm
@Yogi DMT,
Yogi DMT;85855 wrote:
Ahh i see, then that's a completely different idea :perplexed:. In that case i don't see why that mind would function in any other way then one big dream even while not asleep.

Like i said, the brain demands stimulation.
People who are locked away in darkness suffer extreme depressions, halluzinations, nightmares...
 
manored
 
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 03:01 pm
@Phredderikk,
Phredderikk;87873 wrote:
but I really don't know how much one can really remove oneself' from the influence, and brainwashing of his current time and place....
I think not much winhout either going crazy or dying. Temporary insanity, maybe? =)

There is a cool song that speaks about insanity (aparently) called "Beyond the realms of death". Here the lyrics:
Judas Priest | Beyond The Realms Of Death lyrics

Exebeche;87906 wrote:
Like i said, the brain demands stimulation.
People who are locked away in darkness suffer extreme depressions, halluzinations, nightmares...
But they can still hear thenselves, feel thenselves... but, if they didnt had even these basic things allowing then to comprove that time is passing and disrupt the flow of the mind, would they suffer?
 
 

 
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