The two tragedies of life

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manored
 
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 11:35 am
1. To fail to get what one wants
2. To get it

These thoughts are not mine, rather, I read then somewhere and found interesting. What do you think? =)
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 12:13 pm
@manored,
I dont know about that but just be careful of what you wish for,you might just get it.
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 12:19 pm
@manored,
All the tragedies of life can be traced to wanting.
 
richrf
 
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2009 12:35 pm
@Mr Fight the Power,
Hi,

I think pursuing, that the joy received after pursuing, struggling, and achieving is part of life. And the unhappiness that one experiences once it is over, is also part of life.

Life, seems to be a series of ups and downs. Joy, sad, joy, sad. I think it is a natural aspect of evolving. Anyway, I accept it as is.

Rich
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 03:59 am
@manored,
I never considered getting what I want a tragedy.
Though I usually don't, because I only want what I can't have.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 04:17 am
@manored,
Quote:
All the tragedies of life can be traced to wanting.


I disagree. I think there is a healthy amount of wanting that doesn't always end in tragedy. I think excessive wanting is where the problems are. Or refusing to accept something is just another type of wanting but we generally don't look at it as such. Aversion is just as devastating as not getting what you wanted.

If you really think about it, if you completely removed all your wants and desires and just lived by the demands of the body, you would be completely and utterly apathetic to life. Is that really living? When your body falls to the ground for the last time that to me seems no different than a person who is completely apathetic towards everything in life.

Never wanting to go anywhere, never wanting to see or experience life. You have an infinite amount of time to do nothing while your body decays. You should spend this brief split second of existence absorbing as much as you can bear to within means and respect towards life. Learn to become completely free of wants when it not longer matters.
 
richrf
 
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 08:54 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;82467 wrote:
I disagree. I think there is a healthy amount of wanting that doesn't always end in tragedy. I think excessive wanting is where the problems are.


Yes, I would agree. Wanting is a natural part of living. Exploring, learning, observing, creating, achieving. We struggle and we are sad. And that pushes us forward. And then we achieve and feel happiness. And then we have our next want and desire.

I try to live with moderate wants and desires. So the pendulum swings a bit this way and then a bit that way, as I move with the up and downs of life. I find small ups and downs more to my liking than big ones, but I think each person has their own taste for life.

Rich
 
manored
 
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 10:29 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;82467 wrote:
I disagree. I think there is a healthy amount of wanting that doesn't always end in tragedy. I think excessive wanting is where the problems are. Or refusing to accept something is just another type of wanting but we generally don't look at it as such. Aversion is just as devastating as not getting what you wanted.
He didnt say that all want leads to tragedy, but that all tragedy comes from wanting =)

But that can also go for my first post. I disagree with it as well, to some point. I think what the writer wanted to mean is that sometimes pursuing something is better than getting it =)
 
richrf
 
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 11:37 am
@manored,
manored;82547 wrote:
He didnt say that all want leads to tragedy, but that all tragedy comes from wanting =)


In this case, one can say that everything stems from wanting, not just tragedy - i.e. everything stems from the desire to live.

Rich
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 01:12 pm
@manored,
All women become like their mothers; that is their tragedy. No men do; that is their tragedy.

Oscar Wilde
 
Douglas M
 
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 05:37 pm
@manored,
I think the only real tragedy of life is to follow an invisible and untouchable path. Is to live with the eyes closed and the hands tied.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 05:52 pm
@richrf,
richrf;82568 wrote:
In this case, one can say that everything stems from wanting, not just tragedy - i.e. everything stems from the desire to live.

Rich


HMM. Does that include suicide?
 
richrf
 
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 06:21 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;82638 wrote:
HMM. Does that include suicide?


Of course. There is surely no tragedy unless there is desire to live. It is the desire that makes it a tragedy.

Rich
 
Krumple
 
Reply Tue 11 Aug, 2009 11:27 pm
@manored,
Quote:
HMM. Does that include suicide?
Well in some ways I think suicidal thoughts are aversion to live or it's difficulties. It is a desire to end something instead of gain. I just don't feel that it actually solves the problem, but I could be wrong. Although my outlook might be negative, I think people should be allowed to take that course if they feel it necessary. An example of this is perhaps a person who has been diagnosed with an illness that is extremely painful in the last days before dying. Should a person be forced to undergo those pains just because we view suicide as morally wrong? That seems rather cruel to me. If it is their wish to end their life prior to undergoing those pains, they should be allowed to.
 
Douglas M
 
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 04:58 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;82689 wrote:
Well in some ways I think suicidal thoughts are aversion to live or it's difficulties. It is a desire to end something instead of gain. I just don't feel that it actually solves the problem, but I could be wrong. Although my outlook might be negative, I think people should be allowed to take that course if they feel it necessary. An example of this is perhaps a person who has been diagnosed with an illness that is extremely painful in the last days before dying. Should a person be forced to undergo those pains just because we view suicide as morally wrong? That seems rather cruel to me. If it is their wish to end their life prior to undergoing those pains, they should be allowed to.


I agree. People should be allowed to do whatever they want to do with their bodies. And it's not a tragedy to commit suicide if you have a reasonable motivation for it.
 
richrf
 
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 06:48 am
@Douglas M,
Douglas M;82719 wrote:
I agree. People should be allowed to do whatever they want to do with their bodies. And it's not a tragedy to commit suicide if you have a reasonable motivation for it.


I think you may be missing my point. For those who have this desire (maybe the family), there is a tragedy. For the person who committed suicide ... well ....

Rich
 
Douglas M
 
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 11:13 am
@richrf,
I understood what you said Rich. I don't question that, I just said that the suicidal itself might not consider its "destiny" as tragic (although I believe this doesn't happen very often). But actually thinking about what you said: "everything stems from the desire to live". I have to agree with that. I don't believe in external factors (actually gods and deities) influencing or commanding our lifes, I see life as objectively meaningless. Thus I must say that everything that we want must be preceded of the desire to live. Often even the suicidal people are willing to die because of their "incapacity" to live and that is also a reflex of such a desire. The real tragedy, as I have already said, is not be aware of your own condition as a human being.
 
richrf
 
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 11:23 am
@Douglas M,
Hi Douglas,

Douglas M;82804 wrote:
I understood what you said Rich. I don't question that, I just said that the suicidal itself might not consider its "destiny" as tragic (although I believe this doesn't happen very often).


Yes, I agree. It all depends upon how someone looks at it.

Douglas M;82804 wrote:
I see life as objectively meaningless. Thus I must say that everything that we want must be preceded of the desire to live. Often even the suicidal people are willing to die because of their "incapacity" to live and that is also a reflex of such a desire. The real tragedy, as I have already said, is not be aware of your own condition as a human being.


Increased awareness may be what it is all about - from baby until adulthood. For me, I looked for evidence of transcendental life, and I found it in what we call inherited capabilities and innate skills. So for me, it goes on and on and on.

Rich
 
manored
 
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 01:24 pm
@richrf,
richrf;82568 wrote:
In this case, one can say that everything stems from wanting, not just tragedy - i.e. everything stems from the desire to live.

Rich
True =)

Douglas M;82719 wrote:
I agree. People should be allowed to do whatever they want to do with their bodies. And it's not a tragedy to commit suicide if you have a reasonable motivation for it.
I think the matter of whenever suicide should be allowed or not is tricky, because if one wants to suicide one believes he has a "wound" or "pain" that will never heal, and that is not true, time heals everthing. I suppose people should be stopped from suiciding for at least a long period of time, and only then allowed to suicide if they still want. Also depends of the situation though, in the case of the person who will die it would probally better to kill it as soon as the pains started, and a soldier cornered in a battle can very well prefer to make a suicidal attack than to be captured by the enemy.
 
No0ne
 
Reply Wed 12 Aug, 2009 01:58 pm
@manored,
William Shakespear In "As You Like It"
All the worlds a stage and all the men and women merely player's.
 
 

 
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