Gold

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William
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 07:15 am
It is the responsibility of any "leader" of a country to protect and guide those who he is responsible to. It is his responsibility to insure any force antagonistic to the "will" of "his people" be dealt with. This is all I can surmise from my limited understanding of what "power" means as we give that to those people who seem to know what is in "our" best interest. Those corruptive influences that would infiltrate the relationship between a country's people and it's leader, if recognize, would be dealt with for it would no doubt usurp honest communication between the leader and "his" people. It is his responsibility to eliminate that which is so corrupting.

Most countries are "ethnic", not only in their heritage but also their faith. There is this oneness that constitutes a synergy to the overall "hamony" of that country albeit separate and distinguished from that synergy and harmony of other countries.

Consider the body. An intact perfect "country" or "universe" or "mechanism". In that harmony that is the body, it has a "defense" system that will always be alarmed when an alien invader makes it's presence known and will fight to eliminate that foreign influence that would cause it harm. It will either destroy it or expell it. The matter of strength of that body will determine how potent it's defense system is. If the body is weak, it's defense system is weak and easy to "infiltrate". Such as cancer. The earlier it is detected the better the chances of defeating it's pervasive influence. Good knowledge and good food along with an undisturbed "mind" will insure the perfect operation of that body.

Now if that "influence" is not detected early, because of it's evasive nature, the more damage it can do the body as it grows and grows and grows until it reaches a malignancy and destroys that perfect operation of that body and the entire body becomes corrupted and suffers because of that alien invasion that gives the alien strength in that ever so weakening body. If it is contagious it spreads to another body and does the same thing to that body, until there arises an epidemic.

Has the Earth reach a point in which it is hopelessly infected. NO! Not yet, but it's getting there at a record pace. The Earth is infected with a virus that is deeply inbedded within it's bowels called "Gold". An extremely tiny organism that when unleashed can cause severe damage to the overall harmony and synergy of the Earth's bodily function.

Gold is the virus that has invaded the body of the Earth and it's influence is reaching a malignancy.

This Earth is corrupted in epidemic proportions from the influence of gold. It has destroyed all manners of civilizatons that have ever depended on it. It's influence is extremely contagious and corruptive and he who utilizes the power of it's influence has also been corrupted. PERIOD.

It's influence has caused million upon millions of premature deaths and is the cause of all the so called deadly sins. It has always been corruptive and corroding in it's illusions of beauty and purity that it, in itself, possesses. It is tempting; it is powerful and it will in the end destroy you. Just like a virus.

Now go to your computors, your research material or whereever you choose and knuckle down and dig in and prove me wrong. I challenge you. Show me the good it has done to this body we call the Earth.

Sincerely,
William
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 10:56 am
@William,
Gold isn't the problem. Take away the gold and man will turn to other rare minerals for replacements; the results will be the same.

The real problem is greed - and that's a human problem, not the result of some particular mineral deposit.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 11:06 am
@William,
So you're saying that diamonds, salt, slaves, uranium, saltpeter, and oil are all ok by comparison?

And do you feel that we're now immune to such reckless cupidity having freed our currency from a gold standard?
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 11:15 am
@William,
Could be a spoonful of coffee
Could be a spoonful 'a tea
Just a one spoon of yo precious love
is good enough for me

Could be a spoonful of diamond
Could be a spoonful 'a gold
Just a little spoon a yo precious love
will satisfy my soul

It could be a spoonful of water
Save you from the desert sands
But one spoon of a forty five
Save you from another man

Men lie about that
Some of 'em cryin' bout that
Some of 'em die about that
Everybody fightin' about that spoonful
 
Aedes
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 11:26 am
@William,
Diamonds and Gold (by Tom Waits)

The broken glass
And the rusty nails
Where the violets grow
Say goodbye to the railroad
And the mad dogs of summer
And everything that I know

Chorus:
What some men will do here for diamonds
What some men will do here for gold
They're wounded but they just keep on climbin'
And they sleep by the side of the road

There's a hole in the ladder
A fence we can climb
Mad as a hatter
You're thin as a dime
Go out to the meadow
The hills are agreen
Sing me a rainbow
Steal me a dream

Small time Napoleons
Shattered his knees
But he stays in the saddle for Rose
And all his disciple
They shave in the gutter
And gather what's left of his clothes
Chorus

There's a hole in the ladder
A fence we can climb
Mad as a hatter
You're thin as a dime
Go out to the meadow
The hills are agreen
Sing me a rainbow
Steal me a dream
 
Dave Allen
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 02:01 pm
@William,
William;73619 wrote:
Now go to your computors, your research material or whereever you choose and knuckle down and dig in and prove me wrong. I challenge you. Show me the good it has done to this body we call the Earth.
Would that be the same computer that works so well because of the odd gold component?
 
William
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 02:41 pm
@William,
In all fairess, are you guys just be selectively incomprehensive? What you offered is not what the OP asked. Please, if you don't mind, do a little digging and please respond to the objective of the thread.

But, again, in all fairness, any "commodity that is deemed "of value" when "advertized", (such as the "adornment" of gold"), when "hoarded" creates power that is corrupting in he who hoards it for it allows him to "control" the will of mankind. Now you can compared any commodity you wish too. It is the value of Gold that has cause all the bloodshed, I don't think "Starbucks" would be a reasonable facsimile, though people it seems are being hooked on caffeine and the chain has amassed it's share of gold from that addiction. But you see there is enough coffee to go around, as is tea, salt so forth and so on. Hoarding is hoarding, no matter what you choose to value. If you don't mind, let's just stick with gold for the moment. Oh, and by the way man is not greedy, only power is. Speaking of corrupting....................? Ah hell, you guys have heard the phrase before, why repeat it. Perhaps we should change the Midas Touch, to the Midas Virus. I think it would be more appropriate. Ah, but Midas is just a "myth", right? Hmmm?

William

---------- Post added at 04:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 PM ----------

Dave Allen;73729 wrote:
Would that be the same computer that works so well because of the odd gold component?


Interesting? Like the computor is immune from the infecting debilitating affect of the "virus"? Nice shot, but no cigar. Ha.

William
 
Dave Allen
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 03:05 pm
@William,
Quote:
Like the computor is immune from the infecting debilitating affect of the "virus"?
So far it's had less problems with viruses than I have. Gold's sometimes the last resort to people with dental problems too.
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 03:48 pm
@Dave Allen,
And I think that you are missing our point, William. Gold is not the issue. Greed is the issue - the object of greed could be anything, and the results you blame upon gold would be the same.

And, yes, man is greedy; power cannot be greedy as power has no desire. Man, however, does have desire - greed is a sort of desire.

There is simply no reason to think that gold, apart from any other substance, causes war and bloodshed. We can substitute any desireable and the results are the same. Just look at the Opium Wars, for a modern example.

The issue is not "what good has gold done", but instead "is gold to blame for all you blame upon gold?" and the answer is, clearly, not in the least. We humans will fight over a spoonful of anything, even of precious love (remember Troy, anyone?).
 
William
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 03:52 pm
@Dave Allen,
Dave Allen;73744 wrote:
So far it's had less problems with viruses than I have. Gold's sometimes the last resort to people with dental problems too.


Thank you Dave, exceptions duly noted. It would have been much better had that person had healthier teeth though, wouldn't it? Of course getting good dental care depends on how much gold you have in your pocket and bright shiny golden teeth do have their costs. Smile

William

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------

Didymos Thomas;73760 wrote:
And I think that you are missing our point, William. Gold is not the issue. Greed is the issue - the object of greed could be anything, and the results you blame upon gold would be the same.

And, yes, man is greedy; power cannot be greedy as power has no desire. Man, however, does have desire - greed is a sort of desire.

There is simply no reason to think that gold, apart from any other substance, causes war and bloodshed. We can substitute any desireable and the results are the same. Just look at the Opium Wars, for a modern example.

The issue is not "what good has gold done", but instead "is gold to blame for all you blame upon gold?" and the answer is, clearly, not in the least. We humans will fight over a spoonful of anything, even of precious love (remember Troy, anyone?).


Thanks DT, without getting into all the gory details about what I am saying as to what gold is, please consider what Fort Knox, Kentucky is all about?

Thanks,
William
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 04:03 pm
@William,
It's a place to store wealth. So what?
 
William
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 04:58 pm
@William,
Considering the OP, please, you are saying "wealth" is gold. Right? Is this what you are saying? Let's make it clear here.

William
 
Aedes
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 06:27 pm
@William,
Dupree's Diamond Blues, by the Grateful Dead

When I was just a little young boy,
Papa said son, you'll never get far,
Tell you the reason, if you wanna know,
Cause child of mine, there isn't really far to go.

Well, baby baby wants a gold diamond ring,
Wants it more than any old thing,
Well when I get those jelly-roll blues,
Why I go and get anything in this world for you.

Down to the jewelry store packin' a gun,
Says, "Wrap it up I think I'll take this one."
"A thousand dollars please," the jewelry man said,
Dupree said, "I'll pay this one off to you in lead."

Well you know son, you just can't figure,
First thing you know you're gonna to pull that trigger,
And it's no wonder, your reason goes bad,
Jelly-roll will drive you so mad.

Judge said, "Son, it's gonna cost you some time."
Dupree said, "Judge you know that crossed my mind."
Judge said, "Fact it's gonna cost you your life."
Dupree said, "Judge you know that seems to me to be about right."

Baby baby you gonna lose her sweet man,
Dupree come out with a losin' hand,
Baby's gonna weep it up for a while,
Then go out and find another sweet man's gonna treat her with style.

Judge said, "Son, I know your baby well,
But that's a secret I can never tell."
Dupree said, "Judge well it's well understood,
But you got to admit that sweet Jelly's so good."

Well you know son, you just can't figure,
First thing you know you're gonna to pull that trigger,
And it's no wonder, your reason goes bad,

Same old story and I know it's been told,
Some like Jelly Jelly, some like gold,
Many a man's done a terrible thing
Just to get, baby a shinin' diamond ring.
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 06:46 pm
@William,
William;73619 wrote:
It is the responsibility of any "leader" of a country to protect and guide those who he is responsible to. It is his responsibility to insure any force antagonistic to the "will" of "his people" be dealt with. This is all I can surmise from my limited understanding of what "power" means as we give that to those people who seem to know what is in "our" best interest. Those corruptive influences that would infiltrate the relationship between a country's people and it's leader, if recognize, would be dealt with for it would no doubt usurp honest communication between the leader and "his" people. It is his responsibility to eliminate that which is so corrupting.

Most countries are "ethnic", not only in their heritage but also their faith. There is this oneness that constitutes a synergy to the overall "hamony" of that country albeit separate and distinguished from that synergy and harmony of other countries.

Consider the body. An intact perfect "country" or "universe" or "mechanism". In that harmony that is the body, it has a "defense" system that will always be alarmed when an alien invader makes it's presence known and will fight to eliminate that foreign influence that would cause it harm. It will either destroy it or expell it. The matter of strength of that body will determine how potent it's defense system is. If the body is weak, it's defense system is weak and easy to "infiltrate". Such as cancer. The earlier it is detected the better the chances of defeating it's pervasive influence. Good knowledge and good food along with an undisturbed "mind" will insure the perfect operation of that body.

Now if that "influence" is not detected early, because of it's evasive nature, the more damage it can do the body as it grows and grows and grows until it reaches a malignancy and destroys that perfect operation of that body and the entire body becomes corrupted and suffers because of that alien invasion that gives the alien strength in that ever so weakening body. If it is contagious it spreads to another body and does the same thing to that body, until there arises an epidemic.

Has the Earth reach a point in which it is hopelessly infected. NO! Not yet, but it's getting there at a record pace. The Earth is infected with a virus that is deeply inbedded within it's bowels called "Gold". An extremely tiny organism that when unleashed can cause severe damage to the overall harmony and synergy of the Earth's bodily function.

Gold is the virus that has invaded the body of the Earth and it's influence is reaching a malignancy.

This Earth is corrupted in epidemic proportions from the influence of gold. It has destroyed all manners of civilizatons that have ever depended on it. It's influence is extremely contagious and corruptive and he who utilizes the power of it's influence has also been corrupted. PERIOD.

It's influence has caused million upon millions of premature deaths and is the cause of all the so called deadly sins. It has always been corruptive and corroding in it's illusions of beauty and purity that it, in itself, possesses. It is tempting; it is powerful and it will in the end destroy you. Just like a virus.

Sincerely,
William


Why is all of this gold's fault? This is not a very logical argument, you just make vague generalizations and throw in a few metaphors like 'gold is a virus' that imply your opinion.

Why do you think an element consisting of 79 protons and 79 electrons and 118 Neutrons is evil or viral? What has gold made people do that drugs, U.S. money (which does not rely on the gold standard anymore) or desire for power not done?

Ask yourself this: Does it make more sense to say 'Gold, a basic element, is evil', or 'Humans are flawed beasts that often crave power and wealth'? Or was that what you were really trying to say?
 
jgweed
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 07:00 pm
@William,
To say that all human actions are based on greed does not explain, for example, the life of Mother Teresa or that of Ghandi; nor does it explain the Marine throwing himself on a grenade to save his comrades. Many artists, writers, and musicians barely eek out a living, but they remain true to the calling of the Muses.

True, greed plays a large part in the everyday lives of a vast number of people, and the worship of Mammon is widespread. But we should not be blind to the many exceptions, and is it not these exceptions that, when we are at our best and reflect seriously on it, we hold in highest esteem?
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 07:10 pm
@jgweed,
jgweed;73806 wrote:
To say that all human actions are based on greed


Who said that? I saw that the sort of negative actions that William ascribed to gold were more accurately ascribed to greed, but I must have missed what you are talking about.
 
William
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 09:31 pm
@William,
Gold has always been associated with wealth, royality, prestige, status, power and money to those who possessed it. They were in effect the "masters", those who didn't possess it were "slaves", in a mannor of speaking. Jg is saying the lure and lust for gold is not all intrusive and many could actually care less, but they nevertheless are victims to the powerful who possess it. Our entire economic system was base solely on the value of gold up until 1971. Yet the powers exist and so does money and the control money has on the lives of every human being on this planet. There has always been inequity because of the tremendous imbalance that exists between the haves and the have nots in that it was all dependent on the amount of money "gold" you had to spend, with little regard to the excessive waste of those resources that perpetually fed those gluttonous desires of which were sated with the amount of money one had. If you want the finest china to eat on, if you have the money it is at your command, if not, you will have to settle for a paper plate or a plastic one. Well enough for some, I am sure, but the temptation due to the advent of television is relentless as it persists in it's message to spend, spend, spend if you want to be happy, accepted, glorified, honored, recognized, popular, famous, noticed, healthy etc.,etc.,etc.,etc., in this world. Get the picture?

It is a vicious cycle. The money that is spent, creates taxes that feed our politicians, and those who create new things to spend money on whether needed or not which is where the seduction of advertising comes into play tempting those to buy something they don't really need. Prior to television, it was not nearly so bad and advertising such as one might see in the Sears and Roebuck Catalog where honest, practical, detailed and full of usefull information were standard.

The affect is too far reaching to expound on all the ramifications associated with objective value to address now. It is so very pervasive and insensitive to he literally millions upon millions who are starving in this world plus is the impetus behind the supply and demand of drugs, prostutition, theft, war, corruption, extortion, etc, etc, etc., and it all started with the power and allure of gold that still today, has absolutely no useful value with the exceptions of what Dave noted. It is now and always has been the expression of status and it is the lifesblood of the "status quo" and has been the impetus also of all wars in that it supplies the tools of war, also a big profit making industry.

I could go on and on and on though I hope this gives you an inkling of what the OP was all about.

William
 
Aedes
 
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2009 09:47 pm
@William,
William -- we get it.

But whether we're foisting aspersions on gold, on religion, on books, on Nintendos, whatever, the answer to these problems is found within us and not within the inanimate entity in question. If it's not gold it's dollars, or mortgage-backed securities, or diamonds, or cowrie shells. It's all the same.
 
Poseidon
 
Reply Fri 27 Nov, 2009 04:17 pm
@William,
Carl Jung analysed the medieval alchemists search for turning lead into gold as a desire for psychological gold.

Gold buys stuff. But why do people want stuff?
Well, men want wealth to impress women - for the most part -

greed could be seen to have as a root cause - the need for sex;
but then what is the cause of such lust?

Well, its possibly a lack of anything higher to consider being worthwhile.
Enlightenment being a better reward than physical pleasure.
Enlightenment being psychological gold.

Well, at a philosophy forum I know I am preaching to the converted a bit,
but it pays to make the point in order to encourage it being spread further.

...

At age 33, I suddenly realised that the majority of sexual pleasure
was just a placebo effect - one spurred on by an adolescent need
to prove to others that I was doing it good and proper.

Now I suppose many women are amused by all of this, as they
seem less prone to the peer pressure performance issue that plagues
many men - especially young men.
(See the phallic nature of most weapons for eg)

And this is in many ways the reason behind sexual fidelity and prudence
being imposed on many young people (effectively or not)

I have to end with a question
What is the best way to teach youngsters that enlightenment is superior
to physical pleasure?

I am at a bit of a loss for an answer to that one.
I do not think that there is a recipe,
but others may have found effective strategies.

Living in a country which is shagging itself into a mess what with AIDS and
an extremely high birth rate in the ghettoes, I need some answers please!
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sat 28 Nov, 2009 08:33 pm
@Poseidon,
Hello William, i know you are probably looking for something else from this, but this is what i have.
Gold is beautiful, Gold is both useful and pure and has many conductive properties that no other element has, it as an element is part of that 'great puzzle' (periodic) that is our very substance.
It is the price and commerce greed we put upon beauty that leads to the cancer (cancer that is already there) waiting for the instigations to come of gold, the infections symptom (gold) all add up to the disease of greed that will kill you and any society.
Golds price is the bad diet, that leads to the disease taking over.
We are our own killer, we own our cancer, we do not, nor ever will own gold.
Golds price; I would say you are correct is the worlds biggest for ill vehicle, but this may be why we call oil black gold.
Fools gold comes to mind, but this is saying that which is not authentic is not element truth is.
Where as you are saying that the element is a lie? instead of the lie being characterisation disease greed for beauty sake.
Sorry i could not help with what you may be looking for, i just dont see it as golds fault, it is, however, ours.
 
 

 
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