SUPER Computers, Robots & Humans

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Reply Wed 17 Jun, 2009 10:14 pm
In 1-zillion [possibly an exaggeration] years, when we have evolved from stupid humans to advanced, intelligent beings, and we are capable of creating computers that can think and feel and love, then, would these computers be considered alive?

of course, these computers would move, and i guess would be the brains of robots, but, if it could feel everything a human could such as feel fear, love, hate and be able to express free will, would we have to treat it with the same rights as humans, or, would it be like some animal that humans [unfortunately] treat as expendable?

Also, would this type of computer/robot then be exempt from being owned due to the fact that if it were treated as alive, as being owned would be slavery?

would the slavery factor be null and void because, technically, we would be their gods?

just a thought.
 
validity
 
Reply Wed 17 Jun, 2009 10:34 pm
@TurboLung,
If our ability to think and feel and love has come from a complex gathering of matter, then what is stopping us from doing this also? The problem is how do you show that your very complex robot has free will or is genuinely having the experience of emotions or is just a convincing copy?

I would consider that an artifical intelligence that has genuine awareness has the rights of a human.

Such an entity could be considered to be superior to oursleves, making us less than their god.





 
xris
 
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 05:36 am
@validity,
If it was identical to us it would be human.Do we as humans behave as well as we assume we do is the real question.Acting like us is no big deal when you consider our ability to kill ourselves and other species with a regularity that makes us something not worthy of aspirations.I would hope us as creators could make something a bit better than us but then what rights would we have?
 
manored
 
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2009 01:37 pm
@TurboLung,
TurboLung;70020 wrote:
In 1-zillion [possibly an exaggeration] years, when we have evolved from stupid humans to advanced, intelligent beings, and we are capable of creating computers that can think and feel and love, then, would these computers be considered alive?

of course, these computers would move, and i guess would be the brains of robots, but, if it could feel everything a human could such as feel fear, love, hate and be able to express free will, would we have to treat it with the same rights as humans, or, would it be like some animal that humans [unfortunately] treat as expendable?

Also, would this type of computer/robot then be exempt from being owned due to the fact that if it were treated as alive, as being owned would be slavery?

would the slavery factor be null and void because, technically, we would be their gods?

just a thought.
Personally I think this will never happen, with humans fusing with robots/nanobots and vanishing as species. Winhout humans, there will be nothing to keep the robots from considering each other alive.

Assuming we did create inteligent like us robots before the technology to fuse with then, or we didnt fuse for some reason... I think we probally would make robots with "slave mindsets" on purpose, so they would be clever as a human worker winhout demanding anything, nor possessing emotions that would get in the way of their work. Example: If we made a robot to take care of children, we would probally make it such that it would not get attached to anyone and treat all children equally, but we would also probally give it the capacity to have fun so it could better play with children.

The only reason I can think to make robots that think like us is experimentation. On this case, I dont know exactly how the robot should be treated... they were made experiments, but they think like humans, so its pretty much the same than chosing a baby on birth to be a test subject for life... creating such robots would probally be considered ilegal and unmoral.
 
richrf
 
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2009 03:35 pm
@TurboLung,
TurboLung;70020 wrote:
In 1-zillion [possibly an exaggeration] years, when we have evolved from stupid humans to advanced, intelligent beings, and we are capable of creating computers that can think and feel and love, then, would these computers be considered alive?


Maybe. But luckily by that time humans will have figured out how to go back to time, and I'll be able to go back to the 50s and Rock n' Roll to the Big Bopper.

YouTube - Big Bopper - Chantilly Lace


Rich
 
manored
 
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2009 04:25 pm
@TurboLung,
Sorry, you wont. First, because you will be long dead, buried, dusted, atomized, sucked in by a black hole and achieved an unimaginable level of not-being-in-one-pieceness then the universe collapsed. Second, because if time travel to the 50's was possible we would have found that out on the 50's Smile
 
richrf
 
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2009 04:59 pm
@manored,
manored;70425 wrote:
Sorry, you wont. First, because you will be long dead, buried, dusted, atomized, sucked in by a black hole and achieved an unimaginable level of not-being-in-one-pieceness then the universe collapsed. Second, because if time travel to the 50's was possible we would have found that out on the 50's Smile


Bummer. My day is ruined :-(
 
TurboLung
 
Reply Sat 20 Jun, 2009 03:11 am
@manored,
manored;70390 wrote:
Personally I think this will never happen, with humans fusing with robots/nanobots and vanishing as species. Winhout humans, there will be nothing to keep the robots from considering each other alive.

Assuming we did create inteligent like us robots before the technology to fuse with then, or we didnt fuse for some reason... I think we probally would make robots with "slave mindsets" on purpose, so they would be clever as a human worker winhout demanding anything, nor possessing emotions that would get in the way of their work. Example: If we made a robot to take care of children, we would probally make it such that it would not get attached to anyone and treat all children equally, but we would also probally give it the capacity to have fun so it could better play with children.

The only reason I can think to make robots that think like us is experimentation. On this case, I dont know exactly how the robot should be treated... they were made experiments, but they think like humans, so its pretty much the same than chosing a baby on birth to be a test subject for life... creating such robots would probally be considered ilegal and unmoral.



this reply has given me a thought on humans and robots. what about this question:

if you could upload you memory and map your brain that could run on a super computer 100%, would it be considered alive, even with you still alive?

---------- Post added at 07:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 PM ----------

richrf;70415 wrote:
Maybe. But luckily by that time humans will have figured out how to go back to time, and I'll be able to go back to the 50s and Rock n' Roll to the Big Bopper.

YouTube - Big Bopper - Chantilly Lace


Rich


...........................................................................................

Laughing
 
manored
 
Reply Sat 20 Jun, 2009 12:59 pm
@TurboLung,
richrf;70429 wrote:
Bummer. My day is ruined :-(
"Ruiner of days" sounds like a wonderfull tittle, I think I will be keeping it Smile


TurboLung;70564 wrote:

if you could upload you memory and map your brain that could run on a super computer 100%, would it be considered alive, even with you still alive?


My eyes work very well, thank you Smile

Cant really know what would be the general reaction but... I think I would be on a middle term. I would consider it as a living being worth of respect, but not worth of human rights, partly because its not human (therefore different necessities) and partly because if we gave human rights to ever such copy we would be screwed Smile

We probally would need "intelligent robot rights" or something like it.
 
TurboLung
 
Reply Sat 20 Jun, 2009 07:51 pm
@TurboLung,
i wonder though, if you had your memory & brain mapped and you dies, would the memory and brain mapping [running on a super computer] be you, or at least, would the copy think it was still you? if we do not have a soul, then it would be identicle.
 
richrf
 
Reply Sat 20 Jun, 2009 09:06 pm
@TurboLung,
TurboLung;70749 wrote:
i wonder though, if you had your memory & brain mapped and you dies, would the memory and brain mapping [running on a super computer] be you, or at least, would the copy think it was still you? if we do not have a soul, then it would be identicle.


Hi,

I've had a chance to look at humans (inside and outside) and computers (inside and outside). From what I can assure you the two are far from identical :-)

Rich
 
manored
 
Reply Sun 21 Jun, 2009 11:24 am
@richrf,
richrf;70758 wrote:
Hi,

I've had a chance to look at humans (inside and outside) and computers (inside and outside). From what I can assure you the two are far from identical :-)

Rich
Well we are only talking about the mind so the only aspect that matter is their ability to hold minds. If we made a computer with "mind holding" ability equal to that of a human (doesnt matters if the brains are still diferent, lets say the computer handicaped itself in order to simulate it) then we could say they are equal, mind-wise.

TurboLung;70749 wrote:
i wonder though, if you had your memory & brain mapped and you dies, would the memory and brain mapping [running on a super computer] be you, or at least, would the copy think it was still you? if we do not have a soul, then it would be identicle.
The copy would think it is me, and it would indeed be identical, but it wouldnt be me. I am me, doesnt matters if a copy is made... if I die, my councioussness is going with my body, not staying in the computer with the copy Smile
 
richrf
 
Reply Sun 21 Jun, 2009 11:44 am
@manored,
manored;70854 wrote:
Well we are only talking about the mind so the only aspect that matter is their ability to hold minds.


Try separating your mind from your body sometimes and tell me what happens - if you can.

Rich
 
manored
 
Reply Mon 22 Jun, 2009 10:09 am
@richrf,
richrf;70861 wrote:
Try separating your mind from your body sometimes and tell me what happens - if you can.

Rich
I do so whenever I dream Smile Otherwise my bones would be dust by now.
 
richrf
 
Reply Mon 22 Jun, 2009 02:31 pm
@manored,
manored;71078 wrote:
I do so whenever I dream Smile Otherwise my bones would be dust by now.


Yes, when you dream Consciousness is no longer aware of the physical body.

When I say separate, I mean physically separate. I don't think it can be done and still have a living physical being.

Rich
 
manored
 
Reply Mon 22 Jun, 2009 03:56 pm
@richrf,
richrf;71174 wrote:
Yes, when you dream Consciousness is no longer aware of the physical body.

When I say separate, I mean physically separate. I don't think it can be done and still have a living physical being.

Rich
The mind is not attached to the body, the BRAIN is Smile
 
richrf
 
Reply Mon 22 Jun, 2009 04:03 pm
@manored,
manored;71197 wrote:
The mind is not attached to the body, the BRAIN is Smile



OK. Then remove your brain and see what happens to your mind. It might be interesting.

Rich
 
manored
 
Reply Mon 22 Jun, 2009 05:03 pm
@richrf,
richrf;71202 wrote:
OK. Then remove your brain and see what happens to your mind. It might be interesting.

Rich
It goes elsewhere

Brain removal is not necessary for mind-cloning though.
 
richrf
 
Reply Mon 22 Jun, 2009 06:04 pm
@manored,
manored;71214 wrote:
It goes elsewhere

Brain removal is not necessary for mind-cloning though.



It might. The brain could just be a solid piece of mass that just sits there. But we still have the problem of where the brain came from and why the heck the mind even bothers with it. Just go to sleep and don't wake up and be happy as a mind.

Rich
 
TurboLung
 
Reply Mon 22 Jun, 2009 07:05 pm
@richrf,
richrf;71226 wrote:
It might. The brain could just be a solid piece of mass that just sits there. But we still have the problem of where the brain came from and why the heck the mind even bothers with it. Just go to sleep and don't wake up and be happy as a mind.

Rich


have you seen people who pay to have their bodies frozen when they die, so that in the future, when technology allows, they can be broght back to life. then, there are others who can not afford the full body freeze and so pay less but only have their heads frozen and body thrown away.

haha - idiots.
 
 

 
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