Fear: be afraid or scared of; be frightened of;
"A true philosopher does not fear death."
- (Paraphrase from Socrates?)
Do you believe in the above statement? Why or why not?
No I dont believe in the above statement, unless you think every one is a philosopher then everyone has the capability/capasity to not fear death?
If it is just about philosophers and not about everyone (everyone being a philosopher) (we are all going to die dont cha know?) then i also would say there are some philosophers who fear death and some who do not and some who fear it soemtimes and some who do not fear it sometimes (but not all the time, like us all philosopher or not, sometimes we forget to remember). Still not sure if Socrates was trying to rationalise death in order not to fear but still did, or whether he had indeed come to terms with it.
(Not from a philosopher or person, started smoking again, does this make me less afraid or do i just forget my death?)
---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 01:18 AM ----------
The Jester;61422 wrote:
I see it everyday, it could befall to me everyday I woke, and even when I dream dreams I want not to end, but actually I personally haven't met it yet. When we befriend, then I will know, perhaps, something more: if it is as dreadful as some declare or a freedom maker as some other claims. Then I will be able to tell you more.
The Jester indeed, befriend death indeed, unless you are speaking of other friends deaths then to think you can is truely come to terms (which is what friendship is, terms of indearement) foolish, how can you become freinds with someThing rather than a someOne.
Death is not a person, death is a state and so much more, but a personality i heavily doubt,
we all wish she is waiting with a smile and black eyeliner but lets be honest death is not nor ever shall be friendly and give us a wink and smile as she pushes or pulls us elsewhere or nowhere, never, death is us ,is ourselves.
If you disagree with this tell me why death is not ever an anthropomorphism or always must be for us to lose our fear.
Death is a transition from one space to another or to no other it is not an angel but for our need to disarm it.
---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 01:26 AM ----------
This depends what you mean by death and fear. Personally I do not fear death in the abstract- I believe that I will live on after my death, and have good philosophical and personal reasons to believe so. However I do fear death in the sense that I fear an early death, or a painful death- I want to live a full life, and I don't want to suffer too greatly. When people get old they fear death less- because at that point it is evident that death is a natural part of life and that they are reaching that natural point. All of this is obvious and fairly ubiquitous. So my question is this- do you mean that philosophers should believe in an afterlife, or be content in some stoic way with their fate? Be more specific.
Death is transistion you are saying, an inevitable one surely you say, but what if death never comes early or to late it just is, an needs terms in order to rationalise it by giving it age.
Trust me when i say, your death will be right on time.
And only last a fraction enough to not even know if it happened.
Your question proves a point that we must give death life in order to forgive it.
Agreed be more specific.
---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 01:32 AM ----------
I think it is somewhat of a paraphrase from Socrates. If he is not the one who said/believed that, then feel free to correct me.
It isn't my statement - I've just read it somewhere and wanted more opinions other than my own. Though, in my opinion, (hardcore?) philosophers should not "fear" death as why would we fear something we are so curious about? I would not say that we should welcome it per se, but be prepared. I suppose with your latter, "be content [..] with their fate."
I mean.. would you be willing to jump into a black hole just out of the sake of curiosity of what could be on the other side? (Disregarding that many theories say that death awaits you.)
Curiosity killed the cat, there is something to fear, it should not be whether a philospher fears death it should be if anyone fears death what is the point of an inevitable, why fear it if it has to happen? It must have to happen for a reason, the question remains, what gives us the right/reason to know why something is to not be feared as well knowing what reason/right we have for fearing a vipers bite?
Why fear the death, not just the disease?
---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 01:34 AM ----------
Since all Metaphysical traditions are primarily concerned with creation and death, it seems to me that if one has truely come to terms with a metaphycal ideology one has come to terms with death.
Please tell me what you mean by metaphysical here and what the addition of ideolgy detracts or adds to the discourse?
---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 01:37 AM ----------
Victor Eremita;61488 wrote:
A true philosopher fears death, but overcomes that fear.
A true anyone, anyone, anyone, true what, why the hell would you fear death but for the transition an why are you so sure it can even be overcomed by anyone?
---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 01:57 AM ----------
Philosophers are generally big-picture people. We understand life is not "a story about me." This takes away the fear of your ego's own nonexistence and makes you pretty damn curious instead.
No not a story about a me, but of EVERYBODY.
The story of an every me then.
'We' what makes you a we and not a me?
No one understands but a few what life is like as less than a me and more than a we.
(I dont make my points well but so hope you try.)
Everybody is curious else they would not be afraid.
Ego is a nice word you dont use to its full effect and even contradict yourself with unwittingly.
How can you be an ego and not an everybody an all state waiting death?
Ego is what it is to be curious, no one is living dead without curiosity, you sound as if some death for some is any different than for others. Some have more ego to contend with than others, some have more fear than others. WRONG, we are all in a boat that will capsise or just float, but none will either drown or none either be bouyant.
How is knowing that another story is as or more important than your own,
sounds like your ego is working overtime if you think your death is any different than anyone elses.
Suicide is the only power to be had over death and this to is not any different han anyother as the end result is always the same.
However Running up that hill, does not get you 'there' any farther.
---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 02:07 AM ----------
Very good choice of words, Victor.
---------- Post added at 09:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------
I agree with what Victor said. It's not that a philosopher shouldn't fear death, but a philosopher should have the courage or fortitude to overcome the fear of death. Some philosophers use wishful thinking or faith in an afterlife to overcome the fear of death, while other philosophers, such as myself, use rationality, wisdom, and plain fortitude to overcome such fear. There is no rational reason to be afraid of a non-existent circumstance such as death. There is, however, reason to fear the pain that may accompany the dying process, and there is reason to view non-existence as a misfortune.
What makes them a very good choice of words again?
Fear is all about pain, none of it is about death.
How can you fear something you dont know nor ever will until launch/dive? (there is some reason and wisdom and rationality for you)
---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 02:09 AM ----------
It's funny, I have a unique perspective on this I suppose considering my past. Having died three times previously, I have prepared for this inevitability. I do not worry about those I leave behind because I do not plan on letting them know I am dead.
You have not died three time before, that is obviously yet to happen just the once.
---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 02:16 AM ----------
In a correspondence with a friend some time ago we talked about all this. I wrote the following words then. Perhaps they are relevant here too.
"... "Death" can be defined as that moment in time during which a living organism, e.g. a human being, passes from the condition of "being alive" to the condition of "being dead". So we have the following and consecutive series of loosely defined notions: (being) alive - dying - death - (being) dead. Now why is this important and where exactly is the problem? It seems to me that the problem is situated in notion number two: "dying", being a process characterised by time as well as by the inevitable approach of death. Death itself is just a short and passing moment, but it is very effective in determining and influencing the human mind during the process of dying. Indeed many people are less afraid for death than for dying, while they fear that period in life in which death is most intensively present in their lives and colours each passing moment. Now this reminds one of Churchill's motto: "There is nothing to fear but fear itself". Fear is indeed not an inevitable ingredient in the process of dying, and there may be many people who are dying or have died without knowing fear. But in many cases fear is present, being the product of a mind that is able to imagine and anticipate, filling in the unknown with suppositions and hypotheses, such as hell and damnation or black nothingness. Fear is always caused by anticipation; animals do not fear death and they even have no idea of it at all, because they live in the moment and do not have a human's time horizon. Now in a second approach we can distinguish several ways of dying, death being always the same as a relatively short moment of transition. First according to time: dying can take a (very) long or a (very) short time. Even life as a whole can be seen as one long period of dying, during which death -or at least its notion- regularly comes and goes in our minds and "hearts". But one can also state that dying means being still alive and living, and indeed people do many life-oriented things when dying, such as making their will or actively saying farewell to the world...."
I had an operation once, and I was pretty nervous the moments before I was sedated. Then all of a sudden I was "gone" and awoke hours later. Being "gone" was no problem at all, but I had some worries before. And the worries were the problem. I am less scared since then.
I agree with everything happily with what you have said, but for one thing and it may be put into context here by someone else, but of couse all animals fear death, else why run fron the lions jaws, why hide in shell, why struggle the harpoon, why (like us) have offspring and teach them how to avoid it.
'Fear' here might be a strong word used incorrectly by either me or by you.
---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 02:23 AM ----------
Long term illnes i dread, i am angry that i wont see tomorrow because i love tomorrow,I miss my children before Ive even gone,I hate getting old,i dont want to die i love life.Am i frightened of dying? no, slightly optimistic and i know i wont be disappointed.
I miss my tomorrow, children, age before i have them.
Is life ever enough?
---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 02:27 AM ----------
I would agree. Not only because the term resurrection it in religious text but also it seems to me the the cosmos's nature might support those conditions needed for it. Galaxies have been found to be surprisingly magnetic and because of the existence of radio pulsar stars. Magnetism and a radio waves are generated by a machine used to help save peoples lives by taking images of a person's insides in order to give doctors knowledge of any would be problems. Before being born I suppose I was nonexistent which might be like being dead. In act of dying I believe the brain releases compounds that might suppress pain. In a car crash I once had in 02 I cut my forearm open and did not feel it not even after some time, it seemed very surreal. The pain it caused others was more distressing than the thought of dieing.
Unbirth may be likened to it, but it is not it.
You cannot have death without reference/experience to life.
One is definately contingent upon an other but different others for both life and death.
---------- Post added 12-19-2009 at 02:40 AM ----------
How many of you have witnessed death? Not anything you might have seen on the internet or on television. But you were actually present when another human being did in fact die. Not just after or just before or anything that might be known as a "near death" experience?
Only freeing for that person which does not witness, why so many try martyrdom, trying to be witness to the only thing the self is not admitted.
Whether they are successful is only for them to know, and God to try to teach the way to either fearlessness or martyrdom.
Both still sacrosanct funny enough.