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Wed 22 Apr, 2009 06:36 am
Is Morality an Open and Closed Matter?
I suspect most of us would agree that principles of morality can and do legitimately vary from one nation to another.
Within a nation would we also agree that principles of morality can and do legitimately vary from one political party to another? Would we also agree that such variation is legitimate from one state to another; or perhaps from one city to another or from one family to another?
Is there a universal morality that overrides all community boundaries?
In his essay Open and Closed Morality as published in the book of essays The Morality of Politics W. H. Walsh has written about the difficult and elusive concept of an 'open and closed morality'.
"You have a right to remain silent." I guess all Americans who have reached the age of seven have heard this expression many times on TV. I also expect that all adult Americans agree that our nation was founded on the principle that all citizens have rights. Human rights are written into our constitution.
'Right' and 'good' are important moral concepts. Those who believe that all humans have certain rights are convinced that these rights supersede any consideration of the good. In other words, it is believed by some that humans, qua human, have certain inalienable rights that cannot be denied even in the interest of the good. These rights are considered to be universal and thus applicable to all humans wither they are members of my community or not.
Those who hold the existence of such universal moral principles are considered to have an "open morality" while those who believe that such universal rights do not exist and only the good determines the moral are considered to have a "closed morality".
Walsh contends that those with the conviction of a closed morality "For them morality is, first and foremost, an affair internal to a particular community rather than a phenomenon covering the whole of mankind?[this individual] wants to make his own society as good as he can, rather than to construct some finally valuable Utopia." The individual with a closed morality insist that the virtues on which they "insist are in the first instance communal virtues, and the vices they seek to avoid are modes of conduct which would disrupt socials life as such".
Those with an open morality hold that moral law "holds without distinction of persons?privilege and preferential treatment have no place in morality, which is a sphere of pure principle?that the moral law commands for its own sake and not for the sake of any good its observance produces or might be expected to produce, whether private or public?man's only overriding loyalty is to the moral law itself."
Those with a closed morality are convinced that there are no rights, there is only the good. Any act that is beneficial to the community, i.e. is a common good, can be judged as moral or immoral based upon the consequences of the action.
I consider myself to have an open morality; what do you consider yourself to be, are you open or closed?
@coberst phil,
coberst wrote:Is Morality an Open and Closed Matter?
I suspect most of us would agree that principles of morality can and do legitimately vary from one nation to another.
Within a nation would we also agree that principles of morality can and do legitimately vary from one political party to another? Would we also agree that such variation is legitimate from one state to another; or perhaps from one city to another or from one family to another?
Is there a universal morality that overrides all community boundaries?
In his essay Open and Closed Morality as published in the book of essays The Morality of Politics W. H. Walsh has written about the difficult and elusive concept of an 'open and closed morality'.
"You have a right to remain silent." I guess all Americans who have reached the age of seven have heard this expression many times on TV. I also expect that all adult Americans agree that our nation was founded on the principle that all citizens have rights. Human rights are written into our constitution.
'Right' and 'good' are important moral concepts. Those who believe that all humans have certain rights are convinced that these rights supersede any consideration of the good. In other words, it is believed by some that humans, qua human, have certain inalienable rights that cannot be denied even in the interest of the good. These rights are considered to be universal and thus applicable to all humans wither they are members of my community or not.
Those who hold the existence of such universal moral principles are considered to have an "open morality" while those who believe that such universal rights do not exist and only the good determines the moral are considered to have a "closed morality".
Walsh contends that those with the conviction of a closed morality "For them morality is, first and foremost, an affair internal to a particular community rather than a phenomenon covering the whole of mankind?[this individual] wants to make his own society as good as he can, rather than to construct some finally valuable Utopia." The individual with a closed morality insist that the virtues on which they "insist are in the first instance communal virtues, and the vices they seek to avoid are modes of conduct which would disrupt socials life as such".
Those with an open morality hold that moral law "holds without distinction of persons?privilege and preferential treatment have no place in morality, which is a sphere of pure principle?that the moral law commands for its own sake and not for the sake of any good its observance produces or might be expected to produce, whether private or public?man's only overriding loyalty is to the moral law itself."
Those with a closed morality are convinced that there are no rights, there is only the good. Any act that is beneficial to the community, i.e. is a common good, can be judged as moral or immoral based upon the consequences of the action.
I consider myself to have an open morality; what do you consider yourself to be, are you open or closed?
I would think that we cannot decide what our rights are in a vacuum, so that our decisions as to what are our rights have to take into consideration the social good. After we have done so, we may then often consider rights as independent of good, but we should not be hide-bound about that. An obvious case is the Second Amendment.
So, I think that open or closed morality is a false dichotomy, and simplifiied the issue too much.
@coberst phil,
I think it generalized it too much, many mistures of both are possible. For example I dont believe in universal morals, but my concepts of good are whole humanity wide and I want to make an utopia, what pretty much places me on top of the wall in this classification.
Also, I think the word "moral" or "morals" mean something different, though I dont have time to elaborate right now
@coberst phil,
Principals ruin morality... Reason ruins morality... If it is not natural because people feel it, then no amount of rules or reason will make it work... If you want world wide morality; convince people that humanity is one people, all family, and all human, with each deserving of love and respect...Morality is easy with family...Morality is community...
@Fido,
To say reason ruins morality, is like saying reason ruins kindness- obviously they are concepts which cannot ever be fully understood through the use of reason alone, but in the application of morality, reason is neccersary- for instance an unreasonbly moral person might go around giving all their food away and starve to death. They are very moral, but they have not served the cause of morality as much as somebody who, for instance, gave away a small portion of their food everyday.
@avatar6v7,
avatar6v7 wrote:To say reason ruins morality, is like saying reason ruins kindness- obviously they are concepts which cannot ever be fully understood through the use of reason alone, but in the application of morality, reason is neccersary- for instance an unreasonbly moral person might go around giving all their food away and starve to death. They are very moral, but they have not served the cause of morality as much as somebody who, for instance, gave away a small portion of their food everyday.
Moral forms/concepts are not really concepts...If you cannot point to the reality you cannot form the concept, and if you do anyway on slight evidence then you cannot compare the reality to its form... We know it when we feel it, so if you want more of it, you have to give people the reason and ability to feel it more... Build communities...Build families, and build nations, and help humanity to conceive of itself as an extended and loving family... There is no easy way to morality, because morality means an obligation, and obligations are more easily reasoned out of than reasoned into... Look for an example in Genesis... The first crime was against God, and the second was against man, and in each, reason played a part... It is because injustice is always justified, and people doing wrong must first justify it to themselves...I give up.. When I start to justify anything I know I am getting ready to do wrong...
@coberst phil,
Reason doesnt exists alone, its a tool we use to achieve the objectives generated by the subjective side.
@coberst phil,
coberst wrote:
As reasoning creatures that have disrupted the evolutionary process, we must replace this evolutionary process with a rational process that can duplicate or improve on the natural evolutionary process. If we cannot perform this prodigious task adequately the whole shebang will be flushed down the toilet.
I dont see why the evolutionary process should be repaired, if it was indeed broken.