Recreational use of drugs (legal and illegal)

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Justin
 
Reply Sat 9 May, 2009 02:29 pm
@The Dude phil phil,
Let's all step back and take a breath. Short, badgering posts are not necessary to dole out to one another and soon become unproductive. Please keep this thread on topic. Thank you!
 
gojo1978
 
Reply Sun 10 May, 2009 05:03 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
More important are unemployment benefits. If somebody wants to smoke himself unproductive, fine. But then I have to pay for that? How would you like that if the tax system was structured in a way to make you pay for it?


Well, put it this way. A drug user (we'll call cannabis smokers drug users for now), for the purposes of this conversation, either gets a small government hand-out to maintain his lifestyle, OR goes out and commits crimes to pay for it. Now, I don't know how much US dole money is, but what do you think is going to cost less - giving him a nominal handout ($80 a week, say?) or the cost of crime, victim support, policing, tracking the criminal, and on top of all of that, imprisoning him for a period of time. And then, of course, once he gets out of the slammer, nobody will touch him for a job, which means he will then have zero option but to go out and commit yet more crime just to eat and live, let alone continue using drugs. It's a no-brainer really.
 
Yogi DMT
 
Reply Sun 10 May, 2009 08:40 am
@Caroline,
Non-addictive drugs are very cool. So far i've done certain drugs (No extremely hardcore drugs, nor no addictive drugs whatsoever), im not going to into exactly which ones, but i've done them numerous times and so far nothing bad has come out of it. I have a good time while i'm under the influence Smile, and that's it. Addictive drugs are a whole different matter and can really control and ruin someone's life. Therefore my thinking on the subject is that addictive drugs should be illegal and recreational non-addictive drugs such as marjuana, or LSD should be at the user's discretion, maybe even requiring supervision. I think the use of some drugs should be legalized even if it requires some set of rules (Ex: supervision) to keep you for doing stupid things and making bad descisions. For me at least, my limits are passed when i try or use addictive drugs such as dope, crack, even tabacco.
 
gojo1978
 
Reply Sun 10 May, 2009 09:40 am
@Yogi DMT,
Yogi DMT wrote:
Non-addictive drugs are very cool. So far i've done certain drugs (No extremely hardcore drugs, nor no addictive drugs whatsoever), im not going to into exactly which ones, but i've done them numerous times and so far nothing bad has come out of it. I have a good time while i'm under the influence Smile, and that's it. Addictive drugs are a whole different matter and can really control and ruin someone's life. Therefore my thinking on the subject is that addictive drugs should be illegal and recreational non-addictive drugs such as marjuana, or LSD should be at the user's discretion, maybe even requiring supervision. I think the use of some drugs should be legalized even if it requires some set of rules (Ex: supervision) to keep you for doing stupid things and making bad descisions. For me at least, my limits are passed when i try or use addictive drugs such as dope, crack, even tabacco.


I've actually done most drugs except heroin, and I have to say I found the most addictive to be marijuana. Admittedly, I was a very heavy user, but I found the worst withdrawal effects were to be found from deprivation of marijuana. Contrarily, when the time was right, I had no problems quitting cocaine. So you need to be careful when thinking about drugs as well as when using them not to just take the standard portrayal of them as addictive/non-addictive as read - from my own vast experience, I found at least those two to be wrong.
 
Yogi DMT
 
Reply Sun 10 May, 2009 11:12 am
@gojo1978,
gojo1978 wrote:
I've actually done most drugs except heroin, and I have to say I found the most addictive to be marijuana. Admittedly, I was a very heavy user, but I found the worst withdrawal effects were to be found from deprivation of marijuana. Contrarily, when the time was right, I had no problems quitting cocaine. So you need to be careful when thinking about drugs as well as when using them not to just take the standard portrayal of them as addictive/non-addictive as read - from my own vast experience, I found at least those two to be wrong.
Agreed, but from my experience, i actually find majuana the least addictive. I do it when i want at my own free will. For me at least, i find no addictive qualities except for the fact that it is fun. It really depends on who you are and not only what your personality is like but how your reaction to certain drugs will differ from other people. There may not be definitive line between addictive drugs and non-addictive drugs but you can probably make an estimate based on both people. In addition one has to decide whether the drug induces a physical addiction, a mental addiction, neither, or both.
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Sat 16 May, 2009 05:25 pm
@Yogi DMT,
There is a difference between addiction and dependence. One is physiological, and one is psychological. Marijuana can cause dependence, but not addiction. e.g. if you use it because you get stressed out and feel like you can't function without it you are dependent.

Now, how does one go about justifying restriction of a substance (that is, who gets to say you can't do something for your own good and why)? I maintain that no laws should be in place that dictate how one ought to act for their 'own good'. Public intoxication can be justly illegal as it preserves the rights of those who do not want to be put in danger by those who are under the influence, but sale and use cannot justly be illegal.

If a behavior does not directly, physically or economically(not psychologically except in extreme cases) affect another person it should not be illegal. Now, if someone is causing a problem while under the influence, then they should be arrested. If someone is steeling to support their habit they should be arrested, if not then they should be left alone.

Also note that doing drugs in public places can be justly illegal as it could negatively interfere with others.
 
gojo1978
 
Reply Sat 16 May, 2009 05:28 pm
@Zetetic11235,
Zetetic11235 wrote:
There is a difference between addiction and dependence. One is physiological, and one is psychological. Marijuana can cause dependence, but not addiction. e.g. if you use it because you get stressed out and feel like you can't function without it you are dependent.

Now, how does one go about justifying restriction of a substance (that is, who gets to say you can't do something for your own good and why)? I maintain that no laws should be in place that dictate how one ought to act for their 'own good'. Public intoxication can be justly illegal as it preserves the rights of those who do not want to be put in danger by those who are under the influence, but sale and use cannot justly be illegal.

If a behavior does not directly, physically or economically(not psychologically except in extreme cases) affect another person it should not be illegal. Now, if someone is causing a problem while under the influence, then they should be arrested. If someone is steeling to support their habit they should be arrested, if not then they should be left alone.

Also note that doing drugs in public places can be justly illegal as it could negatively interfere with others.


Good post.

I agree. :a-ok:
 
Yogi DMT
 
Reply Sat 16 May, 2009 07:41 pm
@Zetetic11235,
Zetetic11235 wrote:
There is a difference between addiction and dependence. One is physiological, and one is psychological. Marijuana can cause dependence, but not addiction. e.g. if you use it because you get stressed out and feel like you can't function without it you are dependent.

Now, how does one go about justifying restriction of a substance (that is, who gets to say you can't do something for your own good and why)? I maintain that no laws should be in place that dictate how one ought to act for their 'own good'. Public intoxication can be justly illegal as it preserves the rights of those who do not want to be put in danger by those who are under the influence, but sale and use cannot justly be illegal.

If a behavior does not directly, physically or economically(not psychologically except in extreme cases) affect another person it should not be illegal. Now, if someone is causing a problem while under the influence, then they should be arrested. If someone is steeling to support their habit they should be arrested, if not then they should be left alone.

Also note that doing drugs in public places can be justly illegal as it could negatively interfere with others.


In my opinion people that have a psychological addiction to drugs are a bit weak minded. If the drug has little to no physiological addiction then the drug's impact on you is all in your mind which means you control the situation. Again i stand for legalizing non-addictive drugs but definitely banning very addictive drugs that cause many issues.

If you are under the influence while in public, that can be a problem. It would be better to be under supervision or maybe at a place of comfort, your home, someone else's home, or maybe even a cafe like the ones in amsterdam.
 
sarathustrah
 
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 12:51 am
@The Dude phil phil,
everyones addicted to something... if not drugs or tv or internet or sex or candy or working out or whatever.... if its against your lifestyle fine... but why FORCE that on everyone?

rock climbing has risks but people do it without ropes.
cholesterol sufferers can still eat bacon and bad stuff though its ruining health
drinkers and smokers with cancer continue on even on the death bed...

but the situations presented on hypothetical drug users is hilarious... every person has a completely different story... theres so many different reasons and ways and situations its silly to bother with reasoning like that...

its not fair to condemn something you dont approve of... but then again its not fair for others to be put in danger because of your situation... ESPECIALLY drunk driving

substance abuse doesnt just include illegal substances... over the counter meds, prescription drugs, alcohol, cigarettes... its hardly different than the substances that remain illegal...

there are responsible drug users too you know... ones who make honest livings and have strong morals too.

think of all the alcoholics who beat their wives and kids... for recreation.

and think of all the non drug users who commit crimes... no class or group is worse than the other...

im totally rambling arent i... time for bed
 
EquesLignite
 
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 08:12 pm
@sarathustrah,
Here are my backgrounds on the issue,

I am a college student, so my interaction with drug users is not minimal, and personally my only experience with illegal drug is a couple experiment of marijuana, which I did not like. I do drink beer and smoke cigarettes occasionally, I would say less than an average student does in my area. Influenced by the Enlightenment era thinkers, I am a small government liberal (but not as extremist as libertarian party).

I believe that individuals, endowed by the Creator with freedom and reason, should have rights to make decisions on their bodies and mind without interference from the state, or the government. However, it is also within others' rights not to approve such use (a business does have a right to test their employees, I think, though it may be unwise and wasteful to do), provide that anyone does not initiate violence, coercion, or fraud against others. No more, no less.
 
Lost phil
 
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 08:57 pm
@Justin,
We (and i use the term loosly) are animals in a giant ball trying to make sense of the unexplainable. When people see each other as seperate from themselves amazing things happen. Jealousy, greed, anger, etc. In short.... Don't judge anyone, and never let anyone judge you. In the end we all die. It doens't matter if you have a roll of hundreds in your pocket or a chicklet. This flesh and bone means nothing. Does this mean go out and do every drug you can find at the same time? Well hell yea! But you may want to shy away from the extremes as you might want to consider living long enough to try it again. People are animals, whatever rules and opinions we impose are strickly for our own false senses of security. If you are going to do anything, please be smart. If you die you lose the experience that is life and nothing is worth losing that. Good luck.Smile

P.s. There is no such thing as legal and illegal drugs. The human body knows no difference. Please don't assume a drug is safe because some white coat says it is. Trust me. The majority of Doctors today have no idea what "Treating the patient" even means.
 
manfred
 
Reply Thu 22 Oct, 2009 06:46 am
@Lost phil,
In my honest opinion,i think the world viewed through the eyes of sobriety can take you higher than any drug could.I've done my share,but reality didn't start to get trippy until i sobered up...kind of an acquired taste i guess.
 
 

 
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