Why are men, why are women

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manored
 
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2008 09:37 am
@avatar6v7,
avatar6v7 wrote:
Your theory- that men are disposable because theoretically it requires only one man to fertilise however many women, is flawed. One of the most ancient human concepts is that of marriage- mating once and for life is found even in the animal world. Marriage easily predates war.
I didnt said men can die winhout harm to the species, I said that if a large amount of population has to die because of, lets say, a war for survival, its better that it be men so population can be replaced faster and the war is less likely to be lost.

And the concept of marriage is ancient because, like I said, then our culture was formed there wasnt the need of such mass sacrifice, society wasnt organized enough for a war against a said enemy to be organized, so there was a even amount of men and women. But even so marriage as we know it wasnt present in ever culture, in some ancient civilizations it was common for most men to have no wifes while the richer ones had several.
 
avatar6v7
 
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2008 09:59 am
@manored,
manored wrote:
I didnt said men can die winhout harm to the species, I said that if a large amount of population has to die because of, lets say, a war for survival, its better that it be men so population can be replaced faster and the war is less likely to be lost.

And the concept of marriage is ancient because, like I said, then our culture was formed there wasnt the need of such mass sacrifice, society wasnt organized enough for a war against a said enemy to be organized, so there was a even amount of men and women. But even so marriage as we know it wasnt present in ever culture, in some ancient civilizations it was common for most men to have no wifes while the richer ones had several.

But after some of the largest known conflicts ww1 and 2, there were very few illegitamate children; even fewer than in later more peaceful times. There are some cultures where men have multiple wives, true, but not for the reasons you describe.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2008 10:55 am
@manored,
avatar6v7 wrote:
But after some of the largest known conflicts ww1 and 2, there were very few illegitamate children; even fewer than in later more peaceful times. There are some cultures where men have multiple wives, true, but not for the reasons you describe.
This is not really correct, actually. I can't speak for legitimacy or illegitimacy, but I can tell you that the fastest periods of population growth (in europe and the USA) in modern history were immediately following WWI and WWII. But this is a different matter -- high mortality rates strongly predict high fertility (not biological fertility, but demographic fertility).
 
avatar6v7
 
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2008 11:14 am
@Aedes,
Aedes wrote:
This is not really correct, actually. I can't speak for legitimacy or illegitimacy, but I can tell you that the fastest periods of population growth (in europe and the USA) in modern history were immediately following WWI and WWII. But this is a different matter -- high mortality rates strongly predict high fertility (not biological fertility, but demographic fertility).

because couples were having more children. The idea that men are sent to war because they are some kind of disposable sperm doner does not fit with the way society functions.
 
manored
 
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2008 11:44 am
@withawhy,
Instincts dont work through clear though, they work on the emotions.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2008 01:55 pm
@withawhy,
Avatar -- I agree with you; except that there were an estimated 10 million rapes committed by the Red Army as they surged through Eastern Europe in the last year of the war; and the occupying Japanese armies in Mainland China and Korea raped millions of women as well. But yes, the "baby boom" after the war was mostly couples.

Manored -- instincts do not work on the emotions. Instincts are unconscious behaviors by definition. An emotional response to something IS instinctual, but the downstream behavior is NOT instinctive -- it is a decision.
 
avatar6v7
 
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2008 01:55 pm
@manored,
manored wrote:
Instincts dont work through clear though, they work on the emotions.

what???:perplexed:
 
manored
 
Reply Thu 27 Nov, 2008 06:12 am
@avatar6v7,
avatar6v7 wrote:
what???:perplexed:
You dont know the reason why you should do it but you fell you should anyway.

In case you mean you didnt understood the relevance, I mean that this does not comes from logical conclusions but from instincts, that is, it doesnt has to fit the way the society functions. I dont mean men are sent to war for this reason, but rather that this has an emotional influence on the decision of sending only men to war.

decisions can, and get, emotional values attached to then.
 
avatar6v7
 
Reply Thu 27 Nov, 2008 06:15 am
@manored,
manored wrote:
You dont know the reason why you should do it but you fell you should anyway.

decisions can, and get, emotional values attached to then.

Oh sorry, I was confused by the grammer:rolleyes:
However there are different kind of emotional decisions- lashing out at someone because of adrenaline is instinctual, but deciding to get into a relationship because you get on well with someone- as opposed to physical reasons- would be emotional but rational as opposed to instinctual.
 
avatar6v7
 
Reply Thu 27 Nov, 2008 06:19 am
@Aedes,
Aedes wrote:
Avatar -- I agree with you; except that there were an estimated 10 million rapes committed by the Red Army as they surged through Eastern Europe in the last year of the war; and the occupying Japanese armies in Mainland China and Korea raped millions of women as well. But yes, the "baby boom" after the war was mostly couples.

That is a scary statistic:eek:
But to be expected I suppose. Still the same was not true (mostly) of Britain, France and the USA. Also any children born would be born to a resentful and angry eneamys and have the opposite effect to the theory.
 
manored
 
Reply Thu 27 Nov, 2008 06:21 am
@avatar6v7,
Emotions affect ever decision, we cannot make this separation. With this I mean: then you are emotionally compelled to lash out at someone, your reason starts to be guided by the objective of hurting the person. Reason always works towards objectives preset by emotions.
 
 

 
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