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Infinity

Infinity = a circle

a circle = impossible to display mathematically

a circle = Pi

Pi = Concept

Concept = Real in Thought

Thought = Mind

Mind = Consciousness

Consciousness = "I"

I am impossible expressed mathematically, but I am real in thought.

Mathematics = The description of our physical universe

I do not exist in our physical universe.

And

I exist in conscious thought.

Therefore

Conscious thought is not equal to this physical universe

@withawhy,

withawhy wrote:

Infinity

Infinity = a circle

a circle = impossible to display mathematically

a circle = Pi

Pi = Concept

Concept = Real in Thought

Thought = Mind

Mind = Consciousness

Consciousness = "I"

I am impossible expressed mathematically, but I am real in thought.

Mathematics = The description of our physical universe

I do not exist in our physical universe.

And

I exist in conscious thought.

Therefore

Conscious thought is not equal to this physical universe

Ummm. A circle is not impossible to display mathmatically. We simply do not have the proper equipment to draw a circle which constantly changes according to an infinite increase in value. :poke-eye:

@withawhy,

No. So far it has been impossible to display a PERFECT circle mathematically, as a perfect circle has been defined as a polygon with infinite sides. We would have to find another definition of a perfect circle to be able to display it mathematically. Something we are still trying to do.

@Poseidon,

In my opinion pi is impossibly infinite, but since some may disagree, I've revised it:

Infinity

Infinity = impossible to display mathematically

http://www.fiu.edu/%7Emorriss/backgrounds/infinite2.gif

= Concept

Concept = Real in Thought

Thought = Mind

Mind = Consciousness

Consciousness = "I"

I am impossible expressed mathematically, but I am real in thought.

Mathematics = The description of our physical universe

I do not exist in our physical universe.

And

I exist in conscious thought.

Therefore

Conscious thought is not equal to this physical universe

@withawhy,

There is one flaw there: Just like the letter pi is a mathematical way of representing infinite, but its not infinite itself, the concept of infinite is a mental way of representing infinite, but its not infinite itself.

@withawhy,

Great thread withawhy.

See the thread on Achilles and the tortoise.
I would like to see your input there.

:whoa-dude:

@Poseidon,

Poseidon;31844 wrote:

No. So far it has been impossible to display a PERFECT circle mathematically, as a perfect circle has been defined as a polygon with infinite sides. We would have to find another definition of a perfect circle to be able to display it mathematically. Something we are still trying to do.

In high school we were taught that a circle can be defined as the complete set of points equidistant from a central point, upon a single plane.
Something like that.
I'm no mathematician, but is that not a good definition?

@withawhy,

You need to work on the meaning of =.

I am not sure that any of those are correct.

@withawhy,

deleted by author

@withawhy,

withawhy wrote:

Mathematics = The description of our physical universe

... but what kind of description? ... a Platonic description built up from ideal forms that do not exist in the physical universe? ... doesn't that imply that mathematics is an inaccurate description of our physical universe? ... asked another way, is the physical universe impossible expressed mathematically, but real in being? ...

@paulhanke,

My meaning of = means basically "is also". It removes a whole paragraph of explanation and gets just to the end.

Mathematics = description of our universe, this means that we are right now trying to figure out how our universe works, the laws of our universe, the constants. As we do this, we learn and discover more about how this works. For example, Newton's laws, Einstein's laws, they can all be summed up using equations, or formulas, which make sense of the world around us. By using these formulas, we have a greater understanding of our reality, we use these to get a "mathematical" description of our universe.

The first point is that infinity to us is real. It is absolutely physically impossible to display in front of you, its impossible to display numerically or even with an equation. We can assume the answer is infinite, but we will never have proof. However, we dont actually need to see forever to realize that it could exist. We can use our mind to bend the way we come up with answers. We can feel what infinity is and know that it should exist, but never actually have proof of it.

@manored,

manored wrote:

There is one flaw there: Just like the letter pi is a mathematical way of representing infinite, but its not infinite itself, the concept of infinite is a mental way of representing infinite, but its not infinite itself.

manored, are you saying infinity itself is not infinite?

@paulhanke,

paulhanke wrote:

... but what kind of description? ... a Platonic description built up from ideal forms that do not exist in the physical universe? ... doesn't that imply that mathematics is an inaccurate description of our physical universe? ... asked another way, is the physical universe impossible expressed mathematically, but real in being? ...

Mathematics is a way of describing our universe to say an alien race. It seems to be the most true way.

Art and painting is another, but what you see, what you feel could be different than what I see and feel, therefor this method is flawed.

A verbal or written method could explain it as well, but this is flawed too based on the individual talking or writing.

Audio and video could look or sound real, but its only as real as the resolution, quality, angles and style it was taken.

Mathematics may be the most perfect way to describe our universe, but theories like infinity and pi are physical impossibilities. How could math be used to describe something impossible. You asked "is the physical universe impossible expressed mathematically, but real in being?" Perhaps math is flawed because it uses impossibilities. What if math was only true when you involved impossibilities that dont exist in our reality?

@withawhy,

withawhy wrote:

What if math was only true when you involved impossibilities that dont exist in our reality?

... that sounds about right ... limits as X->infinity; imaginary numbers; the complex plane; Fourier transforms; piece-wise linearity - how much of that kind of stuff do you actually see in nature? ... in mathematics, the ends justify the means Wink

...

@withawhy,

withawhy;32087 wrote:

The first point is that infinity to us is real. It is absolutely physically impossible to display in front of you, its impossible to display numerically or even with an equation. We can assume the answer is infinite, but we will never have proof.

Who's "us".
It is not only not real (to me, us indeed!), but is meaningless, a hollow word with no conceptual substance possible.
The notion of 'infinity/eternity' is just a 'belief' (not science), like Jesus and the FSM...

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