The Falsity of Altruism

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

Ruthless Logic
 
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2008 03:38 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401 wrote:
My view is that the linear function is basically lost when social interaction as a complex society is involved. In order to satisfy self interest there requires reciprocity.

The linearity if you want to stick with the concept is an illusion to the sort of way dualities exist; but we cannot adhere a function of our interconnectedness with right angles.

Dualities, how more intrinsic and deductive can you get in describing human actions?
.


I am sorry, but the consumption of self-interest DOES NOT NEED reciprocity. If you think so, please provide one single example of this enlighten constaint.

P.S. If I were you, I would consider this carefully before posting a reply, in an effort to avoid any impingement's against your sensibilities.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2008 08:32 pm
@Ruthless Logic,
Ruthless,


I think that the self interest is never truly lost but in order to gain self interest one realizes the values (external subjects) are interactive and can be advantageous to fulfilling the self interested motives. At the start of the thread Ruthless, you drilled into our heads the motive is self interested, and altruism can therefore not be a truly direct motive or else it'd be irrational. So the behaviour looses its linearity via the indirect motives of altruistic motives with external interactive values (interactive in the ability to reciprocate, interact), eventually propagating back to the self interest "vector" if you will(which in a one dimensional/linear behavioural system would have been direct)

Why not just a direct self interest behaviour or motives? Well behaviour says otherwise. I'm sure you can think of plenty of situations in which this behaviour can be seen, but just in case.

BBC - Science & Nature - Mammals - Reciprocal alturism

The classic prisoner's dilemma: This shows that intellect and ignorance (cognitive evolutionary traits) would effect the outcome of the decision to fulfill the self interest. If you google it and read about it you'll notice that self interest is always in the people's minds, but their behaviour is not linear to self interest, rather, there are conflictions. Its kind of like saying that on a society one cannot fulfill their self interest with some simple harmonic set of conscious reactions.

I dunno, maybe I don't quite understand what you mean by linear but do you not see that humans can only try in social interaction to indulge as directly as possible their self interest . There is going to be a requirement to motivate oneself to be altruistic to maintain a self interested virtue.

To put it another way, do you honestly think that if we did not hold some emotional or logical appeal for motivation of altruistic actions knowing even instinctually that they'd lead indirectly to fulfilling self interest that humans would behave altruistically?


Is this what you were refuting??
 
Aedes
 
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2008 08:33 pm
@Ruthless Logic,
Ruthless Logic;35326 wrote:
the consumption of self-interest DOES NOT NEED reciprocity
Oh, of course it does. Everything that is innate to us has feedback mechanisms that regulate it.

Remember that the pursuit of self-interest does not guarantee its satisfaction. Even if you argue that all actions are self-interested, failure to fulfill the aims of that self-interested action will persuade one to quench self-interest a different way.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2008 08:40 pm
@Aedes,
Aedes wrote:
feedback mechanisms that regulate it.


Just ask any grown up woman. She'll tell you all about how altruistic positive feedback mechanisms are.Laughing (well maybe not all that funny)
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2008 09:28 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Do I see the seeds of romantic cynicism?
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2008 10:13 am
@Didymos Thomas,
No I was just refering to the positive feedback mechanisms of giving birth. No cynicism.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2008 10:49 am
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401 wrote:
No I was just refering to the positive feedback mechanisms of giving birth. No cynicism.
That's actually a great example, though it involves a lot more planning and forethought than throwing one's self on a grenade. Nothing metaphorical about that for child rearing!
 
Ruthless Logic
 
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2008 09:37 pm
@Aedes,
Aedes wrote:
Oh, of course it does. Everything that is innate to us has feedback mechanisms that regulate it.

Remember that the pursuit of self-interest does not guarantee its satisfaction. Even if you argue that all actions are self-interested, failure to fulfill the aims of that self-interested action will persuade one to quench self-interest a different way.



Just when I think I am out, because you guys get it (enlightenment), you pulllllllllll me back in with protracted misunderstandings.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2008 09:46 pm
@Ruthless Logic,
Uggh... how am I misunderstood? What am I doing wrong in my reasoning?
 
 

 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.02 seconds on 07/30/2021 at 09:23:03