Consciousness Thought

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Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 12:26 am
Recognizing existence of another - Consciousness Beta 1

Reading body Language - Consciousness Beta 2

Verbal Communication - Consciousness 1.0

Mind Communication - Consciousness 2.0

Thoughts?
 
Ennui phil
 
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 03:52 am
@withawhy,
This is stimulating and unprecedented one.

Ultimately,I get the gist of it,but I am not so affirmative if what I am going to say is right.

Thereby,from your perception,withawhy,is it recognizing existence of another the initial aspect towards consciousness?Subsequently,reading body language,verbal Communication,and mind Communication?I coincide that is practical indeed.That is a system,and likewise an organization of consciousness.

Querying - Consciousness 3.0
 
withawhy
 
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 04:17 am
@withawhy,
I am speaking of it more in the evolutionary standpoint of consciousness.

Life on Earth


Single cell organisms to multicell.

Things develop senses..touch..sight.. etc.. they become aware of other life, become sexual. Still a pretty dumb consciousness however. beta 1

Things evolve, they hop out of the water, somewhere between then and chimps, they start to recognize body language, grunts, noises, facial expressions. a very basic form of communication. they are slightly more conscious as they start to have feelings, however they have no way to really communicate or ask eachother what the heck being "alive means". because of this they cannot reach 1.0. beta 2

things begin to communicate verbally. we can talk to eachother about this thing called god. this thing called life. we're cognitively aware enough to say we are conscious. consciousness 1.0!

what is the next level? on personal levels, people can pray, meditate, take drugs, realize a higher consciousness. they can reach 2.0 on their own, but without an ability to really communicate it to others to the point where they feel it or realize it too, not just "yeah i believe you", we cannot be on the 2.0 level.

The next level will be reached when we can communicate using our minds. This is slowly happening now and will be changing things very soon. Controlling a video game, a computer or a prosthetic limb will drive this technology to be released, but once we can communicate using our minds, it will change everything.

It will be treated like a drug, but technology is in so many of our lives and mind control will make things so easy that it probably wont enter a prohibition. I honestly cant imagine a society where people are shouting "i found god!" by putting on a device. oh the havoc it will create.

should be fun Smile
 
boagie
 
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 07:02 am
@Ennui phil,
Ennui,Smile

Consciousness is object dependent, people are objects, and if they remain strangers to you, they remain largely object. Object to has its difficulties for it is dependent upon a subject, subject and object stand or fall together, take away one and the other ceases to exist. No object no consciousness.
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 07:31 am
@withawhy,
withawhy wrote:
I am speaking of it more in the evolutionary standpoint of consciousness.

Life on Earth


Single cell organisms to multicell.

Things develop senses..touch..sight.. etc.. they become aware of other life, become sexual. Still a pretty dumb consciousness however. beta 1

Things evolve, they hop out of the water, somewhere between then and chimps, they start to recognize body language, grunts, noises, facial expressions. a very basic form of communication. they are slightly more conscious as they start to have feelings, however they have no way to really communicate or ask eachother what the heck being "alive means". because of this they cannot reach 1.0. beta 2

things begin to communicate verbally. we can talk to eachother about this thing called god. this thing called life. we're cognitively aware enough to say we are conscious. consciousness 1.0!

what is the next level? on personal levels, people can pray, meditate, take drugs, realize a higher consciousness. they can reach 2.0 on their own, but without an ability to really communicate it to others to the point where they feel it or realize it too, not just "yeah i believe you", we cannot be on the 2.0 level.

The next level will be reached when we can communicate using our minds. This is slowly happening now and will be changing things very soon. Controlling a video game, a computer or a prosthetic limb will drive this technology to be released, but once we can communicate using our minds, it will change everything.

It will be treated like a drug, but technology is in so many of our lives and mind control will make things so easy that it probably wont enter a prohibition. I honestly cant imagine a society where people are shouting "i found god!" by putting on a device. oh the havoc it will create.

should be fun Smile


Your thoughts are jumbled. Is telepathic communication the next step or is achieving a higher consciousness the next step?

I don't believe there is a higher consciousness, and the growth of technology is not a part of evolution. As for evolution, I don't see that there is anyway either of those qualities could come about.
 
withawhy
 
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 07:32 pm
@withawhy,
There was a point in evolution where nearly human beings knew nothing of the concept of a complex language, so dont be so fast to dismiss this being the end.

Certain crabs find shells, things that arent a part of their body, live in them their whole life and have evolved differently because of this.

I'm not sure if you clicked the link I posted, but if humans used mind reading technology to communicate for long enough, our brains would eventually evolve to work differently:

New video game reads your mind - Articles - Games - Digital Life - smh.com.au

My main point (probably not communicated well) was that consciousness came about through the ability to communicate. New way to communicate = new level of consciousness.
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2008 06:12 am
@withawhy,
withawhy wrote:
There was a point in evolution where nearly human beings knew nothing of the concept of a complex language, so dont be so fast to dismiss this being the end.

Certain crabs find shells, things that arent a part of their body, live in them their whole life and have evolved differently because of this.

I'm not sure if you clicked the link I posted, but if humans used mind reading technology to communicate for long enough, our brains would eventually evolve to work differently:

New video game reads your mind - Articles - Games - Digital Life - smh.com.au

My main point (probably not communicated well) was that consciousness came about through the ability to communicate. New way to communicate = new level of consciousness.


I see.

The basics of human communication, sight, hearing, sound creation, were not all generated for the purpose of communication. Evolution does not work in leaps and bounds, it works in subtle random changes. With language, the abilities that facilitated it grew out of more basic needs for survival and were present when we began to develop language.

As I see it, none of the necessary abilities that would facilitate this higher communication are present, and the simultaneous creation of them necessary cause such a change would just not happen.
 
withawhy
 
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 02:20 am
@Mr Fight the Power,
Our senses in the begining of time helped life 1st perceive reality. This in turn helped us survive till we reached a certain point in intelligence where we created such a safe environment that we could start using our senses to communicate rather than simply survive. So I suppose you could say the senses were built first to survive & procreate, then to communicate (with a little overlapping im sure).

The question remains, can we better perceive our reality through communication? If yes, then youd have to think what this means. I say this because I perceive my reality incredibly different than i did one year ago. You might even say i am more "conscious" or "aware". This all happened through communication. Is there a next step in communication?

Quote:
As I see it, none of the necessary abilities that would facilitate this higher communication are present, and the simultaneous creation of them necessary cause such a change would just not happen.


Let me get this right, youre saying currently there is no easy way to give us the ability to reach this higher form of communication and the sudden creation this ability to create a higher level in communication wont happen?

Sounds like someone living 300 years ago saying "the ability to create a device the size of my hand that is connected to nothing to talk to someone on the other side of the earth is impossible, simply impossible". While this statement is true, its not thought out well. this device would seemlingly be connected to nothing, but in actuality it would be connected using things called microwaves to transmit your voice to towers and eventually across the world. Witchcraft!

The truth is, we dont have to use our imagination too much. devices that are capable to read our brain waves are already being invented. We can already play games using only our mind. If you look 20 years in the future, you will see we will be controlling our computers using our mind. Keyboard and mouse? Ha! Almost laughable primitive tools. We'll be using only our brain waves.

How how do we transmit thoughts to another, though? This will probbaly be more difficult. Think it, have the computer type it and send it to the persons brain to listen to? Nah. Maybe in the begining. Once it progresses, I think communication using our mind will be instant emotions.

"I really liked that movie."

"Really? Why?"

- zap -

"Ohh.. i see. That is exciting, i want to see it!"

The transfer of feelings and emotions. I think communicating via brain waves would be more similar to drugs than verbal communication. Try to imagine a world where transfering thoughts and emotions was instantaneous.


...Now imagine a world where our thoughts and emotions are uploaded and you can enter the collective consciousness of the world. Okay, maybe now its getting a little too out there. :bigsmile:
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 06:07 am
@withawhy,
withawhy wrote:
Let me get this right, youre saying currently there is no easy way to give us the ability to reach this higher form of communication and the sudden creation this ability to create a higher level in communication wont happen?

Sounds like someone living 300 years ago saying "the ability to create a device the size of my hand that is connected to nothing to talk to someone on the other side of the earth is impossible, simply impossible". While this statement is true, its not thought out well. this device would seemlingly be connected to nothing, but in actuality it would be connected using things called microwaves to transmit your voice to towers and eventually across the world. Witchcraft!


I am only saying that the advance won't be evolutionary. We may find the technology to allow us to communicate telepathically, but we will likely still understand this communication in terms of language. Evolution would likely be necessary to bring about the physiological change necessary for a different sort of consciousness, and that won't happen.
 
withawhy
 
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 06:44 am
@Mr Fight the Power,
The mind is capable of reaching higher levels of consciousness in its current state, whether drug or meditatively/spiritually induced. what we have yet to do is experience a heightened consciousness through experiencing another's mind
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 03:53 pm
@withawhy,
withawhy;28741 wrote:

...Now imagine a world where our thoughts and emotions are uploaded and you can enter the collective consciousness of the world. Okay, maybe now its getting a little too out there. :bigsmile:


Not so much. This has been explored here: Ghost in the Shell, and expounded upon further here:
Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence

The cyberpunk movement has been exploring this idea for decades.
 
withawhy
 
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 06:27 pm
@withawhy,
I think I need to see ghost in the shell :Glasses:
 
Rose phil
 
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2008 11:10 am
@withawhy,
I'm new here and just feeling my way around. I thought it might be a good idea to leave a few comments here and there as a way of giving others some idea of where I'm coming from. I don't have the time just now to compose a proper post. So I hope this is okay.

Okay some quick comments. I believe there is a higher consciousness. I don't believe in a religious God but I do believe there is some benevolent force running things. And it could well be us. I believe we are more than we realise and I believe we are capable of so much more than we know.

Okay my stomach says it's dinner time. Later, friends.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2008 11:26 am
@Rose phil,
Rose;28989 wrote:
I'm new here and just feeling my way around. I thought it might be a good idea to leave a few comments here and there as a way of giving others some idea of where I'm coming from. I don't have the time just now to compose a proper post. So I hope this is okay.

Okay some quick comments. I believe there is a higher consciousness. I don't believe in a religious God but I do believe there is some benevolent force running things. And it could well be us. I believe we are more than we realise and I believe we are capable of so much more than we know.

Okay my stomach says it's dinner time. Later, friends.


The only point I would tend to disagree with here is the "benevolent force" aspect you mention. If anything, I would have to say "utterly impersonal force." I'm more comfortable with that, for a variety of reasons. Partly because the flip side of benevolence is malevolence, and I have enough of an issue with this whole "free will" thing as it is without introducing the idea of benevolent and malevolent forces into the equation.

Enjoy your dinner!
Respectfully,
Tock
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2008 11:39 am
@withawhy,
withawhy;28889 wrote:
I think I need to see ghost in the shell :Glasses:


Might I also suggest you read Ubik and A Maze of Death by Philip K. D ick.

(Sorry, I have to put a space between the D and the i of his last name or the %#*& forum censor turns it into Philip K. ****.)
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2008 02:27 pm
@withawhy,
withawhy wrote:
The mind is capable of reaching higher levels of consciousness in its current state, whether drug or meditatively/spiritually induced. what we have yet to do is experience a heightened consciousness through experiencing another's mind


As someone who is not opposed to the occasional drug use and has done what he could to educate himself on the matter, I would be very hesitant to call that state to be a "higher consciousness". The euphoria most drugs caused can easily be misconstrued for a higher state of mind while experiencing a high.

As for spiritual elevation, I am not prepared to comment.
 
withawhy
 
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2008 02:37 pm
@Mr Fight the Power,
Mr. Fight the Power wrote:
As someone who is not opposed to the occasional drug use and has done what he could to educate himself on the matter, I would be very hesitant to call that state to be a "higher consciousness". The euphoria most drugs caused can easily be misconstrued for a higher state of mind while experiencing a high.

As for spiritual elevation, I am not prepared to comment.


do you believe a 1 year old child more, equal or less conscious than an adult?
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2008 02:59 pm
@withawhy,
withawhy wrote:
do you believe a 1 year old child more, equal or less conscious than an adult?


What a strange question. I have never thought of someone as being more or less conscious. I suppose a one year old would have less conscious functions than an adult, but I still consider consciousness to be a you have it or you don't sort of quality.
 
withawhy
 
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2008 03:09 pm
@withawhy,
so one day at one moment youre not conscious and the next you are? or is it a gradual thing?
 
Rose phil
 
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2008 08:16 pm
@Mr Fight the Power,
Mr. Fight the Power;29039 wrote:
What a strange question. I have never thought of someone as being more or less conscious. I suppose a one year old would have less conscious functions than an adult, but I still consider consciousness to be a you have it or you don't sort of quality.



Could you be mixing 'Conscience' with conscious and consciousness?
 
 

 
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