The Low Point of Civilization?

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manored
 
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2009 04:53 pm
@Aedes,
EmperorNero wrote:
The whole green thing just seems silly to me. And global warming is nothing but a unscientific myth.
I somewhat admire the people that came up with it and now profit from it.
I wouldnt say unscientific, I think its just something we dont have the capacity to decide for either side yet. Its like the study of eating habits on health, I heard chocolate goes from hero to villain and back to hero quite oftenly.

But, to be honest, then I think about Global harming, I have this strong impression than in a hundred years or so our grandchildren will mocker us for all this "green" stuff we are doing just like we mocker our antecestors for believing jumping over fire on new year would bring luck.


Aedes wrote:
Compared with where we were from 1900-1950, we're without question doing better. We still have genocides and pogroms, but we don't have Auschwitz, Kolyma, Nanking. We still have battles, but we don't have the Somme or Stalingrad.

The world is rife with problems, asymmetries, and suffering, but by many measures they are less superlative than they were in the first half of the 20th century.

We also have gotten to the point where social justice is a more commonly held value than it has ever been in history (on a global scale).
Indeed, we tend to think the world has more problems nowadays than before, but perhaps its just because we couldnt know how the whole world was going before. Social problems always existed, but at least nowadays we have peace between countries. Off course, not in the whole world, but in most part, differently from older times were countries were trying to conquer each other pretty much all the time.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2009 04:56 pm
@manored,
manored;59818 wrote:
But, to be honest, then I think about Global harming, I have this strong impression than in a hundred years or so our grandchildren will mocker us for all this "green" stuff we are doing just like we mocker our antecestors for believing jumping over fire on new year would bring luck.


hehehe... nice. Absolutely!
 
Aedes
 
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2009 06:57 pm
@VideCorSpoon,
Even if you don't believe in global warming, the exact same stuff to which we attribute global warming is also directly responsible for a great deal of 1) human disease and 2) political strife. If we burned energy more cleanly and lowered demand for it, then whether or not that helps global warming it helps other things.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2009 05:39 am
@Aedes,
Aedes;59845 wrote:
Even if you don't believe in global warming, the exact same stuff to which we attribute global warming is also directly responsible for a great deal of 1) human disease and 2) political strife. If we burned energy more cleanly and lowered demand for it, then whether or not that helps global warming it helps other things.


Agree. And if only for the sake of the air not being brown. Which I think we forget in the whole ice caps melting frenzy.
But then we should do that for the right reason, and not because of global warming, which also creates a lot of wasted effort.
It's a bit like saying being a Christian leads to supporting charity, but charity is good without being Christian, so it is better to be Christians.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2009 06:10 am
@VideCorSpoon,
Well, the evidence to support global warming seems incontrovertible. The evidence to support anthropogenic global warming is where the controversy lies, but that's only because we have to use historical controls (for which we have far less evidence than right now). And rising sea level is not some trivial eventuality. So I don't think that global warming is a weak rationale for certain policies -- it just happens to be one of several important reasons to enact the same policies.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2009 06:22 am
@VideCorSpoon,
But that's like saying, it doesn't matter if man made global warming is real, and that we should follow it's conclusions to do the right things for the wrong reasons.
Isn't that the definition of unscientific?
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2009 06:47 am
@EmperorNero,
Well for a certain amount of us we should be doing the right thing for our survival.I wonder if the Australian farmers are finding these changes a spur to new adventures.
The lowest point i have found at this moment in time is those who refuse to admit its happening and then claim if it is? its natural.
If certain events result from this catastrophic event we will be counting survivors in their thousands not planting bananas instead of spuds.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2009 12:53 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero;59875 wrote:
But that's like saying, it doesn't matter if man made global warming is real, and that we should follow it's conclusions to do the right things for the wrong reasons.
That's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that for matters of policy there is common ground between people on both sides of the global warming debate, because the policies that help global warming will help other things too.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Sat 25 Apr, 2009 02:15 pm
@Aedes,
Aedes;59914 wrote:
That's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that for matters of policy there is common ground between people on both sides of the global warming debate, because the policies that help global warming will help other things too.


Well, I agree.

_____
 
 

 
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