The Pot and the Kettle

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Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 02:05 pm
Is it wrong for the pot to call the kettle black, if in fact the kettle is black?
 
NeitherExtreme
 
Reply Thu 27 Dec, 2007 04:28 pm
@de Silentio,
Interesting... I'd say it's not wrong in the general sense. But if the pot is wise, it will acknowledge that itself (the pot) is black as well.

But, in any specific scenerio, I think attitudes, timing, implications, and so on, would need to be taken into account as to whether or not it was an appropriate comment at that given time.

PS, I'm assuming that "black" is considered bad...
 
ogden
 
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 06:55 pm
@de Silentio,
de Silentio wrote:
Is it wrong for the pot to call the kettle black, if in fact the kettle is black?


Yes it is wrong. Only because this phrase is used as a synonim for a situation when an observer makes critical claims about someone else when they themselves posses the same attributes. (I'm assuming black is just an arbitrary condition of kettles and pots exposed to smokey flames.) It implies lack of self examination witch is a character flaw, IMO. Then again maybe I should check my own flaws before I judge Wink.

Obviously intentent and affect should be considered. If the pot was just making an observation or was trying to help the kettle then it is not wrong. Perhaps "black" is just a form of greeting that fire worn cooking utensils use to "keep it real".:p

Speaking of intent; what was your intent by asking such a simple yet moraly loaded question?Smile
 
Vasska
 
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 03:28 am
@ogden,
ogden wrote:
Yes it is wrong. Only because this phrase is used as a synonim for a situation when an observer makes critical claims about someone else when they themselves posses the same attributes. (I'm assuming black is just an arbitrary condition of kettles and pots exposed to smokey flames.) It implies lack of self examination witch is a character flaw, IMO. Then again maybe I should check my own flaws before I judge Wink.

Obviously intentent and affect should be considered. If the pot was just making an observation or was trying to help the kettle then it is not wrong. Perhaps "black" is just a form of greeting that fire worn cooking utensils use to "keep it real".:p

Speaking of intent; what was your intent by asking such a simple yet moraly loaded question?Smile


Couldn't agree more.
 
de Silentio
 
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 06:27 pm
@ogden,
First off, nicely written reply.

ogden wrote:
this phrase is used as a synonim for a situation when an observer makes critical claims about someone else when they themselves posses the same attributes.


Why is it wrong to make a critical claim if it is true?


Quote:
It implies lack of self examination witch is a character flaw, IMO. Then again maybe I should check my own flaws before I judge Wink.


I do not pick that up from the phrase itself. Perhaps that is what is meant though. (damn deconstructionist philosophy!)

Quote:
Obviously intentent and affect should be considered. If the pot was just making an observation or was trying to help the kettle then it is not wrong.


Again, why is it right or wrong to say if it is true? Why should the intent determine the moral rightness or wrongness of a true statement?

Quote:
Perhaps "black" is just a form of greeting that fire worn cooking utensils use to "keep it real".:p


Perhaps pots and kettles should not meddle in philosophy!

Quote:
Speaking of intent; what was your intent by asking such a simple yet moraly loaded question?Smile


I heard somebody say the phrase, and the question popped into my head.
 
ogden
 
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 05:01 pm
@de Silentio,
Hello De Silentio
de Silentio wrote:
Why is it wrong to make a critical claim if it is true?


It is a common enough phrase that it is clear what the meaning is without it being imbeded in the phrase. It is not critical in its own right, thats just how people use it (I did'nt coin the phrase).

Quote:
Again, why is it right or wrong to say if it is true? Why should the intent determine the moral rightness or wrongness of a true statement?


I think intent has everything to do with it. The reason intent has meaning is because humans interact by recipricol communication that makes intent relative and important to establish inter-personal relashionship.

I don't think morality is a bianary (yes/no) thing, context and intent are valid in the court room for this very reason. Manslaughter and murder-one are judged differently because of intent.

I also think that statements about others that are conditions that are out of that persons control don't have much potential eccept to insult.

If the indavidual making the insult has the same condition then it shows blatent lack of self examination.

There is some underlying rule in my head that makes sharing positive comments OK and sharing negative comments bad. I can't explain it. Is this what you have been getting at? Yes, this is the root of morality you were looking for wasn't it?Wink
 
 

 
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