Thought Experiment

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Irishcop
 
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 04:27 am
@globemaster,
Quote:

Furthermore, suppose that these intelligent-creative machines are obedient to humans and are serving them well. They have freed humans from most of the laborious and boring (repetitive) tasks.


This would reduce our society to a slave state.

Regardless of whether the slave is a machine made of flesh, or silicon, if they are intelligent and creative, they are sentient beings. Regardless of whether they are willing slaves, or subjugated they are slaves nonetheless.

And, that would make us slave owners. I don't believe many generations would pass before the slaves began receiving civil rights. Within a few more generations they would enjoy equality among humans. Thus, the competition for survival begins anew.

Can we call this the (Star Trek) Data scenerio?
 
globemaster
 
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 07:37 am
@Irishcop,
Irishcop wrote:


This would reduce our society to a slave state.

Regardless of whether the slave is a machine made of flesh, or silicon, if they are intelligent and creative, they are sentient beings. Regardless of whether they are willing slaves, or subjugated they are slaves nonetheless.

And, that would make us slave owners. I don't believe many generations would pass before the slaves began receiving civil rights. Within a few more generations they would enjoy equality among humans. Thus, the competition for survival begins anew.

Can we call this the (Star Trek) Data scenerio?

the artificial life will never be granted "civil rights". Mankind will destroy them all first, and themselves second. What is left will be a society set back a millenia in their development.

It must seem I'm really down on human's ability to not destroy itself? Just look around the world. Plenty of races are trying their best now to destroy civilization.

I'm not really that pessimistic of a person. I see the reality of the evil that surrounds us and no matter how vigilant we are sooner or later it only takes one terrorist nuke over NYC or Washington DC to spark armegeddon.
 
Irishcop
 
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 08:35 am
@globemaster,
The same things have been said about all slaves in their repected slave societies, Globe. The fact is, they have all been emancipated with rights.
 
globemaster
 
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 01:16 pm
@Irishcop,
And quite often shipped off somewhere out of sight..........

aside from our black slaves here many freed slaves were simply slaughtered or driven out of the kingdom's territory.

Irishcop wrote:
The same things have been said about all slaves in their repected slave societies, Globe. The fact is, they have all been emancipated with rights.
 
l0ck
 
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2007 07:58 pm
@xcite,
i think artificial life will gain significance eventually
why wouldnt it?
survival is a good implementation that all life is trying to achieve something and its moving somewhere
and survival was around before man was
its just happend to animate life in human form
whos to say it wont take artificial life to the point where humanity is?
the big debate is can machines have souls?
the answer is yes
life is monadic
monad is another way of say soul i guess.. an infinite quality
monads create everything voluntarily
every human contains atleast one monad
if monads wanted to.. they could animate a machine.. why? because they make up the machine just as they make up any other expression
if we look at the way things are going
the fact that machines exist
and are growing more and more complex
they will eventually reach the point where they can obtain a monadic host
if u look at the way technology is going.. the AI field is only increasing... it seems to be caught up in the exponential expansion of mans output energy
all these fields are taking us somewhere
we can only assume that as they grow more and more complex they will only continue to do so.. and they do so exponentially
monads are absorbing qualities from mass faster and faster to the point where its literally becoming harmful to the race..
so as time goes on advancements in these fields will only begin to emerge faster and faster
until we reach the point where technology is advancing so fast it does so as fast as we can think about it
which is the point where monads have absorbed all qualities from mass
and realized they are apart of mass and apart of this absolute and are the absolute and can literally form the environment at will because they are the environment
of course this is all assuming the rare of man released energy continues to increase exponentially
unfortunately as we get closer to the point where all qualities have been absorbed from mass the population begins to fall as mans release of energy becomes harmful to all physical life
the question is.. how does survial fit into this if population begins to drop?
because as mans release of energy increases.. so does technology an all creative fields.. so we can only assume technology will literally pave the way for survival as both fields increase at the same time at the exact time
they are related..
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff70/l0ck143sd/PsNp00400.jpg

http://photobucket.com%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff70/l0ck143sd/PsNp00400.jpg
 
madscientist phil
 
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 09:36 am
@l0ck,
What is the diagram supposed to mean 10ck? Wink i may sound like dumb but seriously... looks like some cool stuff but what is that chaos gap? and the biologically harmful energy? is it the fact that man uses more energy and hence releases it to space and thus energy on Earth will decrease with increasing population so that population will decrease after reaching the threshold for resources and energy?
or is it some more complicated inside theory?
sounds interesting anyway!! Smile
 
perplexity
 
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 09:46 am
@xcite,
The chaos gap is bad karma, what used to be known as living on the never never, borrowing more to pay off the interest on the previous debt with no way to know where the next is to come from.

http://www.philosophyforum.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif
 
linux user
 
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 02:51 pm
@l0ck,
Perplexity commented > That is exactly how this sort of forum makes me feel,

"sat idle, inactive, jobless, purposeless and desroyed."

If that's how you "feel" perplexity, than Jump Ship and try someplace else.

Personally, My Son is wheelchair bound due to SEVERE epilepsy which has DESTROYED his life here with me, my wife, and my other four children - but, HEY - as long as YOU can complain, it makes me feel a whole lot better!!

Personally, I prefer l0ck's response!!

"Row, row, row your boat,Gently down the stream.Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,Life is but a dream."
 
perplexity
 
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 03:36 pm
@linux user,
linux_user wrote:
Perplexity commented > That is exactly how this sort of forum makes me feel,

"sat idle, inactive, jobless, purposeless and desroyed."

If that's how you "feel" perplexity, than Jump Ship and try someplace else.


:rolleyes:

Obviously enough I am already someplace else, another World.

None the less, I posted here for 38 days in 2006. Then for the next 285 days I posted nothing more and took no notice, content enough, so I know the difference and shall again.

Mind your own business.

---
 
linux user
 
Reply Mon 15 Oct, 2007 04:16 pm
@perplexity,
*Cough*

I saw a fleeting glimpse of a 50 Stone Woman on t.v. the other day - WHINING about her weight, depression, lack of sex, and the lack of "understanding" from the "normal" people "out there" >

Was it you?

SO much Aggression from someone who leaves NO information about themselves - Just a faceless nobody with nothing to say!!

Do you actually READ any of the works of Walter and Lao Russell?

If not - WHY are you here?

Also, may I interject - you have NOT answered my question regarding Psychotronic Generators and Psionic machines - although your comments AGAIN were smarmy and (shall I say) full of yourself, regarding my post on that - a MOST Important of Subjects....

PLEASE Refrain from using the (now predictable) Rolling Eyes Icon....

It reflects poorly upon yourself.
 
Irishcop
 
Reply Tue 16 Oct, 2007 04:22 pm
@linux user,
linux_user wrote:
Perplexity commented > That is exactly how this sort of forum makes me feel,

"sat idle, inactive, jobless, purposeless and desroyed."

If that's how you "feel" perplexity, than Jump Ship and try someplace else.

Personally, My Son is wheelchair bound due to SEVERE epilepsy which has DESTROYED his life here with me, my wife, and my other four children - but, HEY - as long as YOU can complain, it makes me feel a whole lot better!!

Personally, I prefer l0ck's response!!

"Row, row, row your boat,Gently down the stream.Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,Life is but a dream."

Im sorry to read about your son. I can relate with you about your plight, My 12 year old son has had 34 major surgeries (spine, brain, abdomen, and leg) after being born with Spina Bifida.
He can walk, but it has come at a dear price. His catastrophic medical condition has effected all other areas of our (his family's) lives.

...and you are right, it puts things in perspective, .....that many folks dont have.
 
madscientist phil
 
Reply Wed 17 Oct, 2007 09:16 am
@Irishcop,
Irishcop, i feel sorry for your son, you and your family... Sad I hope your son gets better soon...

linux_user - I also feel sorry for you and hope everything goes well.

I can imagine how hard life can be in such situations. We always complain about how bad we live etc - unless we hear of someone else who is in even worse situation than we are. Then we realize we are not that bad on it and that it could be worse. Of course im not sayin here i wouldnt be happier if things went better. Human nature? do we see ourselves as individuals suffering more than others? probably, as we are the only ones feeling it and going through it...
 
l0ck
 
Reply Thu 18 Oct, 2007 03:43 pm
@xcite,
both of you guys perplexity and madscientist are correct on your descriptions of the gap
perplexitys responses are very.. perplex
u have to think about what he says more than most people want to
hehe
i enjoy ur posts plex
it just takes me days to figure out just what the hell it is your talkin about
i guess plex your vocabulary is too big
and mine is too small
 
linux user
 
Reply Thu 18 Oct, 2007 05:48 pm
@l0ck,
Thanks for your comments, Irishcop & madscientist.

Irishcop - I think it's even worse for you and your family, as Spina Bifida leaves your son with his Mental Faculties Intact, as opposed to my son, who can no longer talk and will be "lucky" to live to be 21!!

I think it's worse for a child (or Son), who is able to converse and realise the terrible situation he lives with, than a child who is no longer aware.

More people should read (and KNOW), Walter and Lao's Self Multiplication Principle - as it also works in reverse....

If they did - they would no longer complain about "their" plight.

Brett.
 
madscientist phil
 
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 04:28 am
@linux user,
linux_user;5228 wrote:

More people should read (and KNOW), Walter and Lao's Self Multiplication Principle - as it also works in reverse....

Hm yes!! only if i knew what it is!! Very Happy sounds interesting. well if u saya a few words bout it, maybe we may know. is it too complicated to explain?
 
Ecstasy
 
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 07:56 am
@linux user,
linux_user wrote:

Irishcop - I think it's even worse for you and your family, as Spina Bifida leaves your son with his Mental Faculties Intact, as opposed to my son, who can no longer talk and will be "lucky" to live to be 21!!

I m sorry to hear about your and Irish's son.
Life can be so unfair at times.Sad
 
Justin
 
Reply Fri 19 Oct, 2007 09:33 am
@madscientist phil,
madscientist wrote:
Hm yes!! only if i knew what it is!! Very Happy sounds interesting. well if u saya a few words bout it, maybe we may know. is it too complicated to explain?

I will make it a point to post something on this topic in the Russell Forum.
 
linux user
 
Reply Sat 20 Oct, 2007 03:30 pm
@Justin,
I'll leave it to Justin to answer this one for you....

Here's a clue for you, though. Have you heard the phrase "I'm on a Downward Spiral?" Or words to that effect?

It usually accompanies >

A) I'm SO Depressed.
B) Everything is going wrong at the moment.
C) Why do I feel this way?

Well, THAT'S the Exact Opposite of the Self Multiplication Principle!!

Brett.
 
madscientist phil
 
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 09:30 am
@linux user,
linux_user;5318 wrote:

Here's a clue for you, though. Have you heard the phrase "I'm on a Downward Spiral?" Or words to that effect?

hmm ya heard that... exactly what i thought!! feeling bad, depressed etc...

linux_user;5318 wrote:

A) I'm SO Depressed.
B) Everything is going wrong at the moment.
C) Why do I feel this way?

Well, THAT'S the Exact Opposite of the Self Multiplication Principle!!

Hm that's how i feel quite often!! Sad yes. and when it happens i feel sad, depressed, everyuthing goes wrong, no hope in anything. And when things go good and I feel in good mood it is the exact opposite. and is the self multiplication principle when evrthg goes well and we feel like we're in heaven and all we do has a purpose? and that then brings even greater feeling of joy? if thats the principle then ya... pretty common. but still interesting to analyze why it is so. When everything seems bad and not going well then we give up and really EVERYTHING seems or is that way. on the opposite it is also true...
 
 

 
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