I'll soak up your wisdom like a sponge

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Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 01:00 pm
I'm a young student of Philosophy who wants to learn all she can; I am (not well) versed in a number of philosophers and theories, but I want more more more! Let's talk about freedom, ethics, religion, spacetime, quantum mechanics, anything and everything. I am here to learn and grow and think and explore. Join me in my quest for wisdom, won't you?
 
Krumple
 
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 01:05 pm
@Eudaimonia,
Hi Eudaimonia welcome to the philo forums. Sounds like you are starting off with a great mindset. Maybe it will be a two way street of learning.
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 01:35 pm
@Eudaimonia,
Eudaimonia;172526 wrote:
I'm a young student of Philosophy who wants to learn all she can; I am (not well) versed in a number of philosophers and theories, but I want more more more! Let's talk about freedom, ethics, religion, spacetime, quantum mechanics, anything and everything. I am here to learn and grow and think and explore. Join me in my quest for wisdom, won't you?

I might pee on the toilet seat if I get a little drunk; but I never spill my wisdom... Other than the cant, which I am inclined to get you over as quickly as possible, I am sure you will be fine here.. What do you think might be the difference between freedom and ethics??? Or what is their connection???

Don't quit your job and leave your wife and kids in your quest for wisdom, if you want my advice... Let it come to you... I will tell you I know everything you need to know to understand life and philosophy, but then, I don't have my wife and kids and job, exactly, either... You will have to pay a price for what you learn... You may first have to admit you are ignorant, and then abandon ignorance to ever have knowledge... and most people are very attached to their ignorance, because their ignorance makes them sociable...
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 01:39 pm
@Fido,
O' that I had the wisdom to share. Hopefull I can share something of worth with the world and you.

Cheers and welcome,
Russ
 
Khethil
 
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 01:43 pm
@Eudaimonia,
Good, welcome!

Be ready to open your mind; to critically examine everything you hold dear and try to understand/relate to some of the most seeming off-beat things you'll ever behold.

Good luck!
 
Eudaimonia
 
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 02:22 pm
@Fido,
Fido;172548 wrote:
What do you think might be the difference between freedom and ethics??? Or what is their connection???


At first, I thought your first question would only need a simple response, but now that I've been mulling it over I can't seem to write anything substantial...

I read a little De Beauvoir last semester, and I resonate with her idea that we have an ethical obligation to preserve and perpetuate freedom among the human race. I place a high value on my personal freedom, and I have a deep respect for the freedom of others, and this is the foundation for my ethics. As long as I am not infringing on the freedom of someone else, my actions are morally permissible. But, when I try to outline a fundamental list of personal freedoms, I get caught up. All I can say with certainty is that murder infringes upon the victim's freedom to live; aside from that, I can make no concrete moral claims from freedom. Personally, I try and treat people with kindness and fairness because I believe people have the freedom to be happy, but I also know every man is free to make himself happy regardless of how he is treated.... I just feel that "negative energy" imposes on people's freedom to live in a positive atmosphere, I suppose.

Freedom would be enough in a purely rational world, but that is not the world in which we live. Freedom is the ability to be whoever you want to be in the world; ethics keep people from choosing to be "evil". Freedom has no limitations; ethics are limitations (well, stipulations). But, every man has the freedom (and the obligation) to choose for himself his personal ethical values.

I will pose another question; could freedom exist without ethics?
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 09:30 pm
@Eudaimonia,
Eudaimonia;172574 wrote:
At first, I thought your first question would only need a simple response, but now that I've been mulling it over I can't seem to write anything substantial...

I read a little De Beauvoir last semester, and I resonate with her idea that we have an ethical obligation to preserve and perpetuate freedom among the human race. I place a high value on my personal freedom, and I have a deep respect for the freedom of others, and this is the foundation for my ethics. As long as I am not infringing on the freedom of someone else, my actions are morally permissible. But, when I try to outline a fundamental list of personal freedoms, I get caught up. All I can say with certainty is that murder infringes upon the victim's freedom to live; aside from that, I can make no concrete moral claims from freedom. Personally, I try and treat people with kindness and fairness because I believe people have the freedom to be happy, but I also know every man is free to make himself happy regardless of how he is treated.... I just feel that "negative energy" imposes on people's freedom to live in a positive atmosphere, I suppose.

Freedom would be enough in a purely rational world, but that is not the world in which we live. Freedom is the ability to be whoever you want to be in the world; ethics keep people from choosing to be "evil". Freedom has no limitations; ethics are limitations (well, stipulations). But, every man has the freedom (and the obligation) to choose for himself his personal ethical values.

I will pose another question; could freedom exist without ethics?

As you show by your question, there is a connection between ethics and freedom, though considered separately, they are each virtues... In fact, it is impossible for immoral people to be free or for free people to be immoral... Yet, properly speaking, it is not individual people who are free, or moral... People are free in a free society, and moral in a moral society... One may do their best to be free in an unfree society, or moral in an immoral society, but their efforts are met with failure, always and inevitably...
 
jgweed
 
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 06:08 am
@Eudaimonia,
Welcome to Philforum!
It seems that ethics, or at least some of the forms it can take, provides support for individual freedom, and in areas of suppression and lack of freedom, can help create it ( The Second Sex, for example, provided philosophical grounds for the women's liberation movement).
But in the end, it is only the Self, in conjunction with Others, that can achieve and create freedom by demanding it.
Regards,
John
 
Mad Mike
 
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 12:56 pm
@Eudaimonia,
Eudaimonia;172574 wrote:
At first, I thought your first question would only need a simple response, but now that I've been mulling it over I can't seem to write anything substantial...

I read a little De Beauvoir last semester, and I resonate with her idea that we have an ethical obligation to preserve and perpetuate freedom among the human race. I place a high value on my personal freedom, and I have a deep respect for the freedom of others, and this is the foundation for my ethics. As long as I am not infringing on the freedom of someone else, my actions are morally permissible. But, when I try to outline a fundamental list of personal freedoms, I get caught up. All I can say with certainty is that murder infringes upon the victim's freedom to live; aside from that, I can make no concrete moral claims from freedom. Personally, I try and treat people with kindness and fairness because I believe people have the freedom to be happy, but I also know every man is free to make himself happy regardless of how he is treated.... I just feel that "negative energy" imposes on people's freedom to live in a positive atmosphere, I suppose.

Freedom would be enough in a purely rational world, but that is not the world in which we live. Freedom is the ability to be whoever you want to be in the world; ethics keep people from choosing to be "evil". Freedom has no limitations; ethics are limitations (well, stipulations). But, every man has the freedom (and the obligation) to choose for himself his personal ethical values.

I will pose another question; could freedom exist without ethics?


Very thoughtful response. You might find Charles Taylor interesting; his Sources of the Self argues in part that the various "isms" that contribute to the "modern moral order" hold universal freedom/equality and mutual benefit as high values without being able, on their own terms, to explain why these things are valuable. (As something of a believer in the "ancient moral order," that's not so much a problem for me.)
 
 

 
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