If you gave me a thousand pounds, i would not care why..just be grateful..welcome coin..

If you give a poor man money in order to impress your girlfriend, it is still a good thing to do.

Abalard may have said that there is no sin without intent; but most people are content to punish for what is done rather than the intention of the doer...

---------- Post added 12-03-2009 at 09:01 AM ----------


This is not possibly true... People do not do good by accident, or for the opinion of others because those causes are not good... When people do good it is by way of expressing their goodness, which should also be wisdom...

I have given money to a lot of beggars because even while I was struggling, to have change to spare made me feel as rich as a millionair...But my inclination was not to correct them, or to judge them, or to harm them, and my desire was not in disinterested giving, but in giving all I could, which was a little change to ease their momentary pain...Money is no substitute for a real relationship, and the giver needs it as badly as the taker, because only when we share the pain others feel will we be moved to correct the problems they cannot...So the good give with regret, and not for the money lost, but that so little can be done for those in need...

Welcome to the forum.

Intention is important, but it's still possible to cause harm through negligence or ignorance and I think that must be taken into account rather than merely justifying an action by saying, "Yeah, but I didn't intend for that to happen...."

-ITL-

welcome to the forum

But why not? Suppose the beggar us starving to death, and what you give him enables him to live. Wouldn't that be a good thing to do even if your intention was to impress your girlfriend?

Even if your intention was to do something good, it your action ends up causing injury or death your would not term the act "good". Evil can result from "good" intentions and likewise "good" can come from less than altruistic motivation. The "act" is judged separately from the "motivation or intention". Acts are judged by results not intentions. People may be judged by intentions or motivations. You may not be culpable or deserve credit but your intention does not determine the positive or negative consequences of the action.

Distinguish between a "good intention" and a "good act".

What gets judged is all dependent on who/what is doing the judging. If other people are doing the judging it is a case of actions speak louder than words, As i have no access to your motives. Even if you tell me your motive I have no real way to judge on the veractity of what you said, i would still be judging on action.However a being with access to your motives would be able to judge you on them. This in itslef also brings up the issue about motive being actions in and of themselves.If there is a being that can witness your motives as naturally as I witness your actions, to that being motives may well be indistinguishable from action

Good is a moral choice...You may not like tornadoes or floods, but while we suffer their effect we do not call them evil, but accident, something that happens... We do not do good by accident...We do good by volition being careful to not do harm...Do you want to be an act of fate, or fortune or nature??? Don't you want to prove yourself moral with moral acts??? Don't you want to prove you have a will, and that your actions are not determined like a force of nature???.. Don't you want to relate, to find you are human, recognized for your virtue, not for charity, but for your common humanity recognizing humanity???Perhaps the most difficult thing for most people is not doing without spare change, but is dealing with being wished away... Well; don't wish them away... Talk to them... Look them in the eye... Wish them well; and if you have the courage ask for their forgiveness for having so much and sharing so little...

If you are looking to impress some one you can find plenty of people to take your money...We tend to look at rich and poor as both deserving...Perhaps each may deserve their condition, but what is that??? If a person goes swimming in a flood, and finds he cannot reach the shore, does it matter that stupidity made him, or would you throw him a rope???There is a line from Dylan which I presume a take off from Mark: Before you can heal the sick you must first forgive them... Well; we all need forgiveness...I need forgiveness for having more than I need without sharing, and I need forgiveness for letting my neighbors wounds go unattended... There but for the grace of God goes any one of us.. I will never give any one any thing coupled with rejection...Give freely so you can have true wealth....And always consider your actions...If you are giving to curb the poor man's pain, don't give him enough for a lethal dose...

So much personal taste involved in all of this. What does the disagreement within this thread imply?