I see this is a forum for beginners

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T-T-T
 
Reply Mon 2 Oct, 2006 12:26 pm
I am not a beginner. I have already studied and read philosophy for 40 years. I am 58 years old: and see that most people here have not even begun to study philosophy: much less understand it.

I also see that this forum at first glance: is mainly for dabblers, and people who want to distract themselves with something after they come back from work.

This presents a huge problem in communication.

Unless I find people here who have read and studied philosophy: in depth.

This forum will probably be so full of trivia and misinformation: that I will probably not come back.

Sorry: I thought this was a serious forum. My mistake.
 
NoAngst
 
Reply Mon 2 Oct, 2006 07:32 pm
@T-T-T,
T-T-T wrote:
I have already studied and read philosophy for 40 years.


Your lips must be tired.
 
Justin
 
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2006 08:38 am
@T-T-T,
Welcome T-T-T, glad you stopped by. Please be aware that this forum is relatively new. The community is gradually being built by the contributions and discussions of the general public.

Studying philosophy and reading it means very little unless you are striving to live it. Knowledge from books is something to be remembered and repeated whereas true knowledge comes from the universe and doesn't have to be repeated or remembered, it becomes a part of you.

Since you have had the opportunity to study philosophy in the past it would seem that you would have much to contribute to this community. Many of us haven't had the time or opportunity to study philosophy as you have and many more of us never will. The key is living that philosophy and sharing it in a way that it's a contribution to mankind.

T-T-T, based on what you've stated, you have a lot you could contribute to this community but that choice is yours. I highly recommend you take a look at the works of Walter Russell. Great material for someone who has a good understanding of Science and Philosophy.

Thank you for your post and speaking your mind. I respect your opinion and your choices concerning this forum and this community. Please feel free to post and we'd be most honored with your findings based on all those years of study.

Philosophy: The sum of what you know
 
NoAngst
 
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2006 10:49 am
@Justin,
Justin wrote:
Welcome T-T-T, glad you stopped by.


I believe anyone who would occasion personal introduction for sole purpose of impertinence and self-aggrandizement is motivated by other than legitimate concerns. That the OP had yet to articulate a single iota of philosophy before making such pronouncement and has since evidenced no other participation speaks volumes.
 
T-T-T
 
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2006 09:50 pm
@T-T-T,
If you insist.

Phiosophy is obsolete.

There are no more phiolosophers.

The last living one stated that all Western civilization is meaningless and absurd. His name is Sartre.

The entire attempt to rationalize and justify Western civilization for 2,750 years has been a complete and utter failure.

The only thing is... nobody ever listened to these philosophers. And nobody is listening to them today.

Today... people are still prancing around pretending to be 'philosophers'.

The real philosophers were mostly cripples. They mirrored the corruptions of their age. But they were outside the NORM of civilization enough to have some perspective on it.

Today: the only major dominant philosophy that still exists is consumer captialism.

In other words: absurdity. Meaninglessness. Greed. Self-gratification... taken to a logical insanity.

The result is: dead souls. billions of dead souls: addicted to filling up their inner emptiness with something other than actual meaning.

Anyone who tries to LIVE their philosophy... and NOT LIVE IT... as a capitalistic consumer....

is either a total hypocrite: or they are living in a cave somewhere: and do not have a computer to tell us they exist.

So basically:

Talking about philosophy: is talking about something that is extinct. It has NO relevancy today at all.

The only relevancy that exists today: are people fighting against consumer capitalism... as the ENEMY OF MANKIND.

If you study philosophy for 40 years in depoth and the HISTORY of civilization: you will come to the same conclusion I have come.

But I doubt you will do this.

And I am not interested in people who have no understanding about the history of our past... going....

'he's nuts!'.... 'get a load of this weirdo!'

do you understand?
 
NoAngst
 
Reply Tue 3 Oct, 2006 10:25 pm
@T-T-T,
You exactly mimic Dostoevsky's "Underground Man", who himself defined the world solely on the basis of how he felt about it. That you see things a certain way is not on that account to say anything more than that you see things a certain way. Meanwhile, likely there is a preponderance of people who do not see things the way you do, and are certainly no less entitled to their view. Or are you saying that yours is the only correct view; that what I took to be your whining was meant instead as a hypothesis?
 
Justin
 
Reply Wed 4 Oct, 2006 06:50 am
@T-T-T,
T-T-T,

I'm not exactly sure how to respond to you.

I can tell you this, you (we) are our own worst enemy. That's not philosophy, that's a fact. If you aren't coming in here to contribute and talk philosophy, the maybe there's a more suitable forum for you.

NoAngst, in my opinion, responded to your first post quite frankly and I fully agree.

T-T-T, hopefully you'll get past this mindset and decide to contribute to the community. That's up to you though. In the meantime, I hope you have a better day today.

Oh, one thing... The sun is going to shine everyday no matter what the weather. Sometimes we just have to rise above all this to see it, but I guarantee that it's there and it will be there again tomorrow and everyday thereafter.
 
perplexity
 
Reply Wed 4 Oct, 2006 05:20 pm
@Justin,
Justin wrote:

I can tell you this, you (we) are our own worst enemy. That's not philosophy, that's a fact. If you aren't coming in here to contribute and talk philosophy, the maybe there's a more suitable forum for you.

There are many online forums with a preponderance of anonymous contribuors with nothing much better to do, apparently, than to insult each other or the way it runs.

It never ceases to amaze me, the amount of energy put into not being interested, routine avoidance, misinterpretation and whatever sundry ad hominem instead of argument, perpetual imputations of other people's intentions but with next to nothing to account for their own particular purpose.

The most aggressive of them, I suspect, are so for fear of the loneliness of it, terrified of not otherwise being responded to.

It is sad reallly, for so many beggars to presume to be so choosy.

A ripe time perhaps for a Philosophy of the Forum thread?

-- Rh.
 
de Silentio
 
Reply Thu 5 Oct, 2006 01:57 pm
@T-T-T,
T-T-T, for being so well read in philosophy, your arrogance astounds me. Your two posts only show that people who think they know everything, truly know nothing.
All philosophers in the past have gladly offered their skills to advancing the wisdom of mankind, you obviously do not show this same passion.

You say you have studied philosophy for 40 years, and yet you end up believing only what one person has written. I feel sorry for you. It seems those 40 years have been a waste.

It was pretenstious of you to state that we are going to say you are a "wierdo" for what you wrote. It will be unfortuante for anyone who thinks this. But you obviously have nothing to contribute to this forum, and most importantly to the advancement of philosophy.

I hope that someday you will unshackle yourself and come out of Sartres proverbial cave. When you do, please come back and discuss philosophy with us, we would enjoy it.
 
T-T-T
 
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 06:16 pm
@de Silentio,
Obviously: you have not read or studied philosophy. Sarte was not the only philosopher who said it.

Nietszche said it, Camus said it, Kafka said it, Kierkegaarde said it, Dostoyevsky said it, every single major philosopher for over 200 hundred years was saying it. The ones who did not say it: are now gone from the annals of philosophy as mere dabblers. The ones whose work is still studied and relevant to today: said it.

As I said... I am not interested in explaining 200 years of philosophy to people who have not read it.
 
pilgrimshost
 
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 06:24 pm
@T-T-T,
Sorry Ive come into this discussion a bit late, what did they say specificly?
 
T-T-T
 
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 06:25 pm
@T-T-T,
Re: No angst:

It is blatantly obvious that you mistake your own sentiments to be philosophy.

I seethis time and time again.

Every immature person incapable of separating their own inner ego from the actual state of the outer world: projects exactly what is inside them out onto someone else.

The psychological term for this is called: 'projection'.

I do not commit this error.

Noangst, Peplexity, and de Silento do.

They do not live in the real world. I do.

Until they grow up: any discussion here by me will be a futile exercise in exposing their blindness. They are only arguing with themselves: not with me.
 
de Silentio
 
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 06:33 pm
@T-T-T,
"Obviously: you have not read or studied philosophy" - T

Actually I have read quite a bit of philosophy. And since you mention Kierkegaard, I have seven (I know a trifle) of his books under my belt, and have read excerpts from all of this works.

I don't find it odd that all (or at least most) of the "philosophers" you listed were existentialists. From what I understand, they were not philosophers, in fact Nietszhe is called an Anti-Philosopher (as listed in my philosophy 101 book). They say that these are not infact true philosophies because there works prove that life experience cannot be mediated, which you obviously are trying to do. The majority of Kierkegaard's work and his 'Master Plan' reflects this, unfortunately I cannot speak for the other philosophers because I have not read them directly. Although I did listen to a existential podcast from a professor at Berkeley.

I am not sure about Sartre, but I am pretty sure the point of Nietzszhe and Kierkegaard's works were to show that there are no set rules that we can live by, which the Greeks believed, and that we need to recognize what the world is ourselves, and with Kierkegaard this is done through personal reflection (I believe he even stated that in cannot fully be done without God)

Let me rephrase my statement, you need to escape the existentail cave. It is unfortunate with the vast amount of knowledge you must posses that you cannot share about other philosophies, and would rather put down others than try to help them. I would love to discuss Kiekegaard with you, if you would only give people a chance.

(I would like to state for the record that I do NOT think I am well versed in philosophy. I know general information, and have read a lot, but I still am young (23). I will begin my degree this year, and hopefully finish my Doctorate 8 years from now. However, I do recognize my ignorance, and as Socrates says: you are only wise when you know your wisdom is nothing compared to the wisdom of the Gods!)
 
pilgrimshost
 
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 06:34 pm
@T-T-T,
Well it might be a good idea if you settled in more maybe and talked about philosophy with us. Im interested to learn from others, this is why im here. I dont see a problem with the people you mentioned though.Maybe this forum needs people who know exstenively about the subject to be more involved, it balances the new ones,like me. Also I think having a mixed group of views is productive- it reveals all the angles!

Smile
 
NoAngst
 
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 06:41 pm
@T-T-T,
T-T-T wrote:
Obviously: you have not read or studied philosophy. Sarte was not the only philosopher who said it.

Nietszche said it, Camus said it, Kafka said it, Kierkegaarde said it, Dostoyevsky said it, every single major philosopher for over 200 hundred years was saying it. The ones who did not say it: are now gone from the annals of philosophy as mere dabblers. The ones whose work is still studied and relevant to today: said it.

As I said... I am not interested in explaining 200 years of philosophy to people who have not read it.

Not unexpectedly, the "philosophers" you cite are fiction writers trafficking a weltanschauung, not philosophers advancing a thesis. That you do not know the difference does not speak well for your 40 years of "study". Fact is, if you do not share the sentiment expressed by these storytellers, the world they depict dissolves into nothingness, not unlike a poem that misses the mark or a note played out of tune. Meanwhile, the world goes on without them, unconvinced and giggling at their contrived and syrupy self-indulgences. A person can be an "Underground Man" at breakfast, a "Superman" at lunch and a giddy Naive Realist at dinner, and it's the same old world regardless, turning in its own way with 2+2=4 despite the fashion and attitude these poets posing as philosophers would have us believe.
 
de Silentio
 
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 06:45 pm
@T-T-T,
"It is blatantly obvious that you mistake your own sentiments to be philosophy."

Please enlighten me for I am ignorant, in what way did I do this? Please, backup your statements with rational thinking. Statements with no defense are only beliefs.
 
T-T-T
 
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 07:18 pm
@pilgrimshost,
simple. remeber barrerl makers? there used to be an entire industry that made barrels. people used barrels. they don't use them anymore.

same with philosophy

people used to read books written by philosophers. that died out. there are no more pjilosophers people no longer read philosophers. people no longer give a damn about this obsolete passtime

except some... and what for? not to use what they read. merely to 'discuss' it

what for? so you can pay your rent? what USE is philosophy?

if you can find a use for it. let me know.
 
pilgrimshost
 
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 07:20 pm
@T-T-T,
So the question is what do you use it for?
 
T-T-T
 
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 07:22 pm
@NoAngst,
Why is this person here? Why does this forum tolerate this?
 
T-T-T
 
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2006 07:26 pm
@pilgrimshost,
I said this forum is for beginners who have never studied philosophy: and want to do it without reading one damn book
 
 

 
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