Shouldn't a nurse with a bachelor's degree make more money?

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rascal
 
Reply Thu 24 Nov, 2005 10:12 pm
having once been a mom of a teen patient, and this last year been a patient twice with a TIA, and been in college for 2 years trying to become a nurse, may i say something ladies??

when my son was still here with us and he was sick. And i needed someone to help him , i didnt look at the letters on their name plate. i did read their name out of cortousy, oops ...... courtosy....well, i was trying to be polite. ok, but i could tell the nurses whom cared , for real. and those that didnt. i mean, well, the ones who were willing to observe a little bit longer to understand the problem. or go seek a doctor to consult. or another nurse. those who were prompt to answer my questions and took the time to listen. those who told my son not to hurt, it is ok to ask for medicines to ease the pain. the cancer doctor explained that we can worry about any addictions after he overcomes the cancer. the pain is too severe. my point is, those whom did the extra minutes of caring and trying and gave their best.
ladies that is what mattered. i didnt look on their name plates to see if they had 2 years education, 4 years, or 8 years. i looked to see the efforts made on my sons behalf. those who listened, explained things, or went the extra mile. some would even come by to visit a short minute ....just checking to see how hes doing.....
even a housekeeping lady would stop by. the caring, for someone the patients family cares for.
yes, i ran into a nurse that was busy chatting at the nurses station down the hall. there was someone supposed to be posted there with him 12 hours at a time. critical in the ICU, yes, i was there too but at that time, i wasnt knowledgeable enough to do even one thing. and a couple of times, i couldnt find her. that ladies (sorry, forgot there are male nurses too. sorry) that showed me as a mom of a patient, a lack of caring. she was there 15 mins in that 12 hours. my point is: did her education matter to me then??? not one iota.
and this last year, when i was a patient myself. it shows who does it for money and who does it because they care for people.
one young nurse came in and sat down for a minute. she said, ok, what is your story. (im generally cheerful when there isnt one reason to be cheerful) why are you so cheerful?
my point is, someone cared enough about me as a patient to take time, to notice my needs, to do what they could do to be a help to my recovery. and to listen. listening is worth millions.
people showing care and a form of love to people.
and all the college in the world does not give that to you. compassion isnt found in a book or a bottle you can buy. compassions come as a result of: wow, you know, i have experienced that and wow, i know how deeply that must hurt. here, let me see if what i do, might ease it , even if it is just a little bit. here is what i can offer to make it easier for you to deal with this pain.....mental, physical, or emotionally.
if you offer more patient caring and do your job as your supervisor has asked, hey, get more money. even if you dont have the degrees. it is about people, people in bad circumstances needing other humans to lend a ear to listen, a pain management help in times of severe pain, and a word of kindness, with a loving heart. and a prayer for a full recovery. if you dont know me yet, my son got a complete healing when he left to heavens gates. and i am going back to help other kids and moms with their life, i hope, that are in the situation i was in.
i am glad you want to know more by staying in school. great, that helps when you know more to help my sick loved one. but plez, lets not forget the practical loving care that matters the most in these families lives. we dont care how many degrees you have if your down the hall chatting with others and i need you at bedside. see what i mean?
hope i didnt ramble too long. and i hope something i may of said could be a help. take care, and thank you guys for what you do for the patients and their families. it does matter and it does help. and if i am lucky enough, maybe i can offer myself and come up to half your level of caring. i esteem nurses as great people !!! what care and what a very important role you fill in lives that are hurting so deeply sometimes.
rascal
 
Ginger Snap
 
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2005 04:43 am
Rascal, it's unfortunate that you came away with such a negative impression of ICU nurses, but I'm guessing you will be a lot less judgemental when you become a nurse yourself, and see why a nurse may only spend 15 minutes in a 12 hour period with one patient . . . Things get a lot more complicated when you have to deal with the realities of the job.
 
rascal
 
Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 10:18 pm
sorry if i sounded judgemental. there was supposed to be someone stationed by his side for the 12 hours. we paid extra for that. cost was no factor is attempting to see him well. and you are correct. i am looking forward to becoming a source of understanding and compassion. also, you are correct. i have no real understanding or clue as to the complexities of the "real" nurses life / job. i only have seen it from a patient point of view and this week being tested for the unlicensed Aid to the nurse positions. so, i can not offer any judgement. in any event, 99.9% of the nurses in ICU were absolutely AWLESOME. that is why, directly after the funeral, i took one of the largest bonquets of flowers from the showing part and took it into the break room. for all those ICU nurses and docs whom took part in his care and i asked that they accept a flower from the bonquet for my gratitude.
i guess you will have one in every bunch that isnt completely up to snuff. and who knows, maybe the stress of the situation could have made me a little sensitive or edgy?? could be it wasnt her at all.....but it was our understanding when we paid extra that someone would be there.....
thank God that part is done and good will be up and coming from that experience. thanks for what you attempt to do each day. sorry for us patients or family of patients that are on edge or stressed out. It is a time that patients and family members arent always on their best foot.
thanks
rascal
 
novice 1
 
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 12:24 pm
hi rascal!
I do belive that the "realities" of nursing can be quite an awakening, however, I do not think that you were being "judgemental". If you felt that you and/or your child did not receive the proper care that was deserved, I apologize. You see, yes, we are in a tough career and the stresses are numerous but I try (and no I'm not perfect) to always remember how the patient is feeling.
Four months ago I had a baby and my role changed from RN to patient. I wanted what every patient of mine ever did---compassion, dignity, trust, and competent care. I understood the stressors of the job yet in my time of need (and intense pain) I wanted and deserved all of those things I've just listed. As in any profession, there are good and bad. I pray that I'm a "good" one---most of us are.

PS--- I received the best possible care from the nurses, doctors, and CNAs involved in the birth of my child!!!!
 
rascal
 
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 11:07 pm
thank you for your reply. and i will be the first to say. i have no idea about the stress YET. i have ALOT yet to learn. A whole lot. Congrad's on your recent child. wow that is great.
i just passed my final tonight so i can now say, i am a fresh new pca. assistant to the nurse. but i feel humbled and nervous because i want to fullfill that role with excellence. i look up to RN's and cant imagine ever being one of them, although, i hope to be able to try.
and there are very tough days, i am totally guessing. but within the tough days, i am guessing again, there are going to be those golden nugget moments where you are reminded, ok, that is why i am here.
and wow, i had a part of being there for the solution to this.
wow, i hope to learn and grow and become a great nurse. i have a mountain or mountains of growing/learning to do yet.
And i hope to be to the patients what they need to succeed in their healing. it does feel different on the other side of the bed , doesnt it??
thanks for what you do. It really does help. and it really is important.
you nurses are the anchor in lives that are in a huge storm. families look to you for help and support. you do great work and great deeds every day. thankyou very much for what you do.
im a voice speaking out saying : thank you == you are appreciated
rascal
 
40something retired maybe
 
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 03:02 am
exsuce me for not reading the entirety of this thread but I am an R.N. on disability for a number of things - my ability to concentrate currently hinders me from extensive reading + I am very myopic and need new glasses. (I have to get this sh*t from Medicare).

Anyway, yes it certainly is different being on the "other side of the bed/desk".
I've been on disability for ..."thinking"...like 13 years.

All I ever wanted to feel (as a patient/client/consumer) is that someone was competent and caring. That's about it - clear and simple.

To the best of my knowledge, I do remember everyone who has gone the extra mile...and I remember EVERY CARELESS MORON.

I am currently dealing with a person that I have deemed a moron but because I am on Medicare I have no choice but to see this person. But I am carefully keeping records of every thing and I intend to sue this person's a** off.

This person is not an R.N. I just want you to know it sucks to do this. Please don't get all caught up in climbing the ladder, etc. Or kissing a**.

One of the last facilities I worked at ended up in a scandal. The D.O.N. was having a "thing" with one of our "Charge Nurses".

Please regardless of title remember that patient care is #1.

Thank you for reading.
 
Ginger Snap
 
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 01:23 pm
Novice, rascal, et al, if you haven't read this thread please take a look:

http://www.nurse-forum.com/nurses-9054-0.html

Bossy is offering sound advice, and anyone who expects to survive in this business has to follow it. Yes, every single one of my patients deserves the best care possible, however, the reality is that every day I have to choose who gets my attention. If you are the patient, that's a tough fact to accept. If you are the RN who has to make the choice, it's one of the things you hate about your job. You have to live with the reality that you can't please everyone, and this is a profession where the expectations are so high. And, if you are like me, it is the number one reason why I look forward to the day I can retire. I am tired of working in a profession where I am forced to give less than my best every day I go to work.

As far as the education debate check out this thread:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4279693,00.html

More education may not make you a better nurse, but it is a significant factor in preventing many of you from joining our ranks.
 
JD 1
 
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2006 04:49 pm
Using all caps is not nice
Usually I don't say anything.... however...

Ginger Snap is correct about using all caps.

I am a former Computer Network Engineer and have been using the internet long before most of you. I also was the Sysop of several BBS's in the days BEFORE ARPANET (Now the Internet) went public. So I think that I can state this with some solid knowledge about this subject. Cyberspace etiquette is very clear about this.

It is not only impolite, improper, and disrespectful to use all caps in a message post, but many forums will ban you from their forum if you continue to do that. The idiot that said that it is ok and that it is easier to read obviously is NEW to the cyberspace world. (Makes me wonder about any other advice that person gave) All caps not only looks like your shouting, it is read as if you ARE shouting. (Makes you look like an obnoxious drunk too)

I hope you all are clear on this now.

As for the subject of ADN vs. BSN (which is why I was reading this forum in the first place), very few people here actually answered the original question. The question is: "Are there any advantages to getting a BSN?" Instead of objectively answering the question, you all started fighting like a bunch of children over WHO (<-- Notice that I shouted emphasis on this word) is better. That was never the question. I thought ADN's were professionals? Looking at these posts, I have to reconsider because they are not acting like it here. Looks more like a stupid cat fight from people who seem THREATENED by anyone who has more education then they do. You see the same crap in the corporate office too. To these people I say - get a F^&*(^% life! Or better yet, if you are so insecure about yourself and your little 2 year degree that you feel that you must attack anyone with the courage and strength to earn a higher level of education, then go get a BSN yourself!

As for me? I do not have a BSN, MSN, or even a tiny little RN degree yet. But, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that with each level of education achieved, the advantages grow. It is different for everyone - some may be financial, some may be in quality of career, and some may be in personal satisfaction. But higher education is ALWAYS worth it. If you don't believe this, then you probably are dumb enough to think that President Bush tells the truth too. Rolling Eyes HOW DARE (Notice the caps of emphasis again) someone who is too lazy (or scared or whatever) to achieve anything higher than a teeny, tiny, itty bitty, small, microscopic, entry level degree such as an ADN (RN) tell someone that trying to do better is wrong or "not worth it". How do they know? Who died and made them the benchmark for happiness? Sheesh! You all better PRAY that when I earn my ADN, BSN, and MSN degree and work with you in the hospital scene, you keep your mouth SHUT unless you have something truthful to say. Now go get a life and a higher level of education and act like the Professionals that you are supposed to be!

(Hey, if you think that I am rude in an internet post...just wait until you have to work with me!)
 
Ginger Snap
 
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2006 06:34 pm
JD, if you are serious about joining the nursing profession, you're going to have to get used to this kind of behavior. We have way too many people in the business who take comments or debates personally (like it's an attack against them). Logical, rational discusssions are difficult to find (sigh!).

At any rate, welcome aboard. You know, I've done a little work with programming and databases myself . . .
 
peaches 1
 
Reply Sun 23 Jul, 2006 09:35 pm
BSN VS. ADN.
I obtained my ADN first, then went ahead and got the BSN. In the BSN program, we absolutely never did any clinical stuff. I took four research classes, plus a management class and a physical assessment class that was a joke. I learned a lot more in the ADN program. I, too, already had another degree prior to going to nursing school. I do not believe that someone should be paid more to do the same exact job. I have a BSN, but I take patients and do the same exact job as any other RN, so why should I be paid more?? A BSN does help one to progress to another type of job (other than bedside nursing), but I am only interested in ICU bedside nursing. If I wanted a business-type job, I have a degree for that, too, but I prefer to take care of the actual patient. Oh yeah, please lay off Gingersnap-- we live in America and last I heard, we still had freedom of speech.
 
peaches 1
 
Reply Sun 23 Jul, 2006 09:35 pm
BSN VS. ADN.
I obtained my ADN first, then went ahead and got the BSN. In the BSN program, we absolutely never did any clinical stuff. I took four research classes, plus a management class and a physical assessment class that was a joke. I learned a lot more in the ADN program. I, too, already had another degree prior to going to nursing school. I do not believe that someone should be paid more to do the same exact job. I have a BSN, but I take patients and do the same exact job as any other RN, so why should I be paid more?? A BSN does help one to progress to another type of job (other than bedside nursing), but I am only interested in ICU bedside nursing. If I wanted a business-type job, I have a degree for that, too, but I prefer to take care of the actual patient. Oh yeah, please lay off Gingersnap-- we live in America and last I heard, we still had freedom of speech.
 
Ginger Snap
 
Reply Mon 24 Jul, 2006 10:52 am
You know, JD is coming from a world where people make (or, at least, used to make) a lot of money with no formal training at all. Many computer programmers are self-taught, do their jobs quite well, and make a lot of money at it, too. That said, even in that field, there is a call among some of their members to "raise the level of professionalism" by requiring a bachelor's degree and, some would argue, licensure by the state. So this debate isn't unique to nursing. It's just that when someone tries to talk about this issue, individual nurses take it personally, like someone is attacking them.
 
reginagrasseschisbcgloba
 
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2006 09:02 pm
pay and nursing degree
Well, you can all stop arguing soon, because the persons with less than a BSN are not going to be able to get a job, except perhaps, in a Nursing Home and Rehab. facility. These degrees are being phased out, and if not, I would not recommend anyone to pursue anything less than a BSN.

I know. I'm there, right now.

I am a Diploma grad. I worked 18 years in hospitals. I worked 12 years in a Physician's Office Operating Room as a scrub and circulating RN. Ready to go back to the hospital, I took a few months off, and in my search for employment, I have received NOT ONE response to my applications. The job listings are also very specific, and demand PRIOR experience. Most of the time they want the BSN, with MSN preferred.

By the way, I also have a BA and a MHA.

But, I can't seem to get a job.
 
 

 
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