Having a BSN might help you get a better position or allow you to have more options. But I do agree with you extra schooling should bring a better income.

I disagree. We all take the same boards, and carry the same license. You can get different types of jobs with a bachelor's, and that is the advantage.
The classes that constitute the bachelors degree vs. the associates are generally not nursing related. I don't think the overall education is "better" or more beneficial with that degree.

BSN student
I am an Associates of Science prepared nurse with 10 years of experience. I am going back to school to be more knowledgeable in my profession. A BSN gets me no more money, but is a stepping stone for other goals. True, there are many jobs that require a BSN. However, they really do not require the knowledge you obtain in the BSN unless you include the associates portion of an only BSN prepared nurse. I have seen better ADN and better BSN prepared nurses. It is all dependent on the individual.

First off, I know that there are wonderful, insightful, and very skilled RN's of both educational backgrounds, as I have worked with many of them.
I got my BSN to start off in nursing because I didn't want to spend 4 yrs to get an associate degree. I'm glad I got the BSN. My program included the coursework required to get a PHN license.
The program itself was longer, and we had full semesters of several nursing specialties such as peds, OB, critical care, public health, etc.
The hospital I work for does pay a $3 per hour premium for the RN's with a BSN, and our badges have BSN following the RN.
The extra pay for the degree was the deciding factor for me in choosing this hospital to work for. I value my education, and I like the fact that my employer does too.

I'M A DIPLOMA NURSE W/ A BA IN ANOTHER FIELD AND I HAVE 28 YRS OF EXTREMELY GOOD EXPERIENCE. I WOULD GO HEAD TO HEAD W/ ANYONE OUT THERE RE MY EDUCATION AND SKILLS AND THE EXCELLENCE OF THE PROGRAM IN WHICH I TRAINED.
I ALSO SAT FOR 2 DAYS OF 8 HRS PER DAY OF TESTING.
MY FEELINGS? PAY SHOULD BE BASED ON EXCELLENCE/MERIT AND NOT ON WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE HAS A BSN OR NOT--I KNOW MANY BSN'S WHO COULDN'T FIND THEIR WAY OUT OF A PAPER BAG OR ANTICIPATE HOW A PT WILL PROGRESS FROM POINT A TO POINT K AND ANTICIPATE HOW TO KEEP HIM AWAY FROM POINT Z TO SAVE THEIR LIVES.
AS W/ ALL CERTIFICATIONS--PERHAPS THE FOLLOWING SAYS IT BEST:
AND THIS WAS ON MY NAMETAG FOR A WHILE--RN,BA,CCRN,BFD.....

Beth: As an FYI to Internet etiquette, using all caps is like shouting at the people who read your responses. I know it's easier to type with all caps, but if you visit very many forums, someone is going to complain about your use of them.

As for your point about BSNs, I will point out that in my 25 years of experience in this profession, I have found ADNs/Diploma nurses to be the most inflexible, and rigid nurses in the healthcare system . . . they don't do well with change of any sort, and constantly preach the message you just posted, and express thoughts that indicate they feel threatened by nurses with a broader education. (BTW, I speak from the perspective of having been a BSN, ADN, and LPN).

The one thing that I do find annoying about certain people in the nursing profession are those people who feel they need to attach a gazillion initials after their names, including every certification they have ever received. I'm a competent RN, who happens to have a BSN, and been certified to do a number of things, but I've never felt the need to put more than RN on my name badge . . . I let the quality of my work speak for itself.

I am an ADN nurse and I don't feel threatened by someone with more education. I've had to show MSN's how to put on compression hose, and had to show BSN's how to start an IV. In my area, and probably everywhere, ADN's get a lot more clinical time than BSN's. A BSN may have more management classes but I spent more time at the bedside, where nursing takes place. By the way, no patient has ever asked me what kind of degree I have. They see RN and that is all that matters. I'm not trying to say not get your BSN. I'm working on mine right now, because it gets me closer to my MSN. The message I'm trying to send is this: your nametag says RN, so does mine. In the eyes of the patient, we are equals.

Jeremy

There's the real issue . . . hospital nurses tend to define nursing by the skills you possess, or the things you can do, but there is far more to nursing than that. Get outside of the hospital, and the value of these skills becomes less and less.

This topic is making me so thrilled that I didn't get a BS in nursing and advised others against it. I have always advised young people going into nursing that all an employer wants to see is your RN license, nothing else. I suggested a minor, or associate, in nursing and business major to expand on opportunity, like administrator and forget giving up with DON.

You have got to be joking telling me someone with a BA makes no more money than I do? That is something I did not know and feel better about the advice I gave to young nursing students. This is something that makes me believe slavery was never really abolished. It just takes on a new meaning. Of course, a BSN should make more money!!!

BSN higher pay...
Well I myself am a Diploma nurse and I think Diploma nurses make the best nurses, I don't think BSN nurses should be paid more just because they have a degree, we all sit down and take the same sort of NCLEX, so unless they change that then (BSN) nurses do not qualify to make more in my opinion. I myself will eventually get my bachelor's and maybe even my Master's but just for higher education for myself. My hospital that I work at does not pay more for BSN nurses just Masters. Believe you me my patients would rather have a nurse at their bedside that actually knows what they're doing, and it is quite obvious in the difference of practice from a Diploma nurse and a BSN nurse even from an Associate nurse from a Diploma is a difference. Diploma nurses just know what they're doing.

Ginger Snap: As a response to Beth. re: internet etiquette
Ginger Snap, there have been many discussions regarding Capital Lettering when typing on the internet...it has been overall agreed upon that it is not "shouting at people" but it is MUCH easier for people to read if you type in all caps. It would be shouting if a person was only writing certain statements in caps or trying to make a important point.

Now, back to the more important issue regarding rigidity and inflexibility. Your comment to Beth regarding caps may be construed by many as "inflexible and definitely set in her ways". I am a RN from a Diploma School of Nursing and I also have a BA and a MBA with over 30 years of experience. Why, why do we need to argue within ourselves? It only weakens our profession. I don't care what type of degrees that you do or don't have as long as you give excellent nursing care. Like every profession in the world, there will always be those nurses that are the cream of the crop and they come from all types of RN educational schools. They excel as human beings first to be able to excel as a RN, and NO school has the dibbs on these special individuals, so lets bury the hatchett and earn our pay by how we perform versus what initials we have behind our names.

Cool out Ginger! You criticized me on a topic of nurse addiction and even claimed I was an enabler for drug use. I was trying to help a fellow nurse straighten out serious problems. You said that I gave bad advice, which the only thing I missed is hire a good lawyer, which I see as common sense. You also looked up every post I made and said to fellow nurses that I hate nursing. No, I hate self proclaimed perfect nurses, like you.

Please refer to the topic of backstabbing, Ginger. Here is the link.
http://www.nurse-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=675

Ginger, is that all you do, criticize those that are human, not a nursing machine being flawless? What good advice did you give the individual with a serious problem with drug problems, beyond saying I gave bad advice and forgot to mention to get a good lawyer.

Ginger, I really hate to say this, but you lack compassion for fellow nurses and probable patients, claiming they need narcotic pain meds. I bet you let them suffer, not to create addicts.

This is not the first or last time I will lock horns with you, Ginger. Be supportive of your fellow nurse and less critical. Listen to your patients and medicate with whatever it takes to give them comfort, no matter how addicting an ordered drug is. That is what a good nurse does.

I already expressed concern about how you treat your patients, since you obviously are not understanding of your fellow nurse's problems or willing to work with them. All you do is criticize, once again. The truly good nurses know the difference between drug seekers and drug need. As you write, I bet you would deny a patient Vicoden.

You are way too defensive. Maybe you are not so different that the individual that got caught stealing drugs. You act so militant that I believe you defend too much. Nurses that do not steal drugs don't have much of an opinion, until confronted at work and feel threatened.

Ginger, I seriously doubt you are anyone close to what you say. No nurse is this harsh or should get out of the profession. People that sound like you, I say need a break from the profession and get human again. You are far from anyone capable of true compassion for your patients or co-workers.

Yes, I have read your PC correct posts too. I have one thing to say about it, you must be a liar or way beyond human, with emotion to forgive those who are not perfect, like you patients, first, and your co-workers, who you probably make miserable, secondly. Get away from it all and find out who you really are. You are not your job. It is something you do for money.

This is a site for nurses to speak candidly. You are the only one I see that criticizes others, without reason. Did you check out the Backstabber topic? I would bet my life, you are definitely one of them, but an intelligent nurse.

Ginger, get your priorities straight.

Ginger and Wildflower...and another topic...
Geez, you gals must work together, it's okay. I partially agree with Wildflower, this is a site to speak candidly about nursing.

And to Ginger, I'm not sure whereabouts you live but where I work all nurses are pretty rigid and inflexible. Not many human beings like change anyway.

And truly who cares who makes more money if in your area BSN nurses make more money than get your BSN, that isn't the case where I'm from and I agree with just that for this particular profession.

I will say for the hospital LPN's out there I think you guys should be paid a little more, I mean you may not have 40 patients but you do have a tough job too.

Sorry, but I've visited more than one forum where it's pointed out that all caps is like shouting at your reader . . . very much like using all bold font . . .

You all read way too much into what I wrote. I said I've been an LPN, ADN, and BSN and stopped there because more education wasn't making me a better nurse, just someone who has the right to put a lot more initials behind my name, and I've always found that to be the height of arrogance.

And I do agree with the point about stopping the argument about what type of education you have. I've always felt that it creates unnecessary rifts between the people who actually do the difficult job of being a bedside nurse, but it's the MSNs and PhDs who keep insisting on "making a BSN the entry-level degree."

Wildflower: Why so much venom in your post? Why the personal vendetta? Have you ever been through the complaint process with the board of nursing? Where's your ethics? Did you not hear me when I said that nothing I said was a personal attack against you?

Just because you have compassion for someone doesn't mean you need to encourage bad behavior. No, none of us are perfect, but that doesn't mean we encourage people to continue to do things that are only going to make their situation worse. That's not helping, and that's not supportive.

Or are you just a troll?
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm

"The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.

When you try to reason with a troll, he wins. When you insult a troll, he wins. When you scream at a troll, he wins. The only thing that trolls can't handle is being ignored."

Have a good day, Wildflower.

I did notice Ginger's post quite a few notches down, in arrogance. Just to tell other nurses well beneath her brilliance as a BSN, the topic; why no pay difference for all RNs? Stick with the program and stop your 'better than' syndrome, which is obvious.

What's up with name calling, like saying I am a troll. Come up with something substantial, instead of being childish. You must not be too intelligent of a BSN, if all you have on me is that I am a troll, correct?

Ginger, go right ahead, with this suck up your ploy attacking me, so that other nurses might think you are really a nice person and good nurse. You got arrogant and forgot that nurses are not stupid, but don't wish to fight over something as trivial as your superiority, BSN. Thankfully, none of us has to actually work with you and wouldn't want to after reading your criticism, not any worthy suggestion to anyone here.

I am bold enough to say exactly what I think, meaning I am extremely honest. Some nurses on an ego ride get a very short trip out of me and take that to the DON, right? I bet you are always in that office conveying "your concerns" about another nurse that is probably lower on the food chain, but smart nurses threaten you.

All of you 'know it all', backstabbing nurses, having little skill or confidence, need to make yourself look superior out of sheer survival. God forbid that a low life LPN is a much better nurse than you. You backstab and cost people their jobs with nothing constructive to say at all. I have read enough of your posts to know that.

Take your degree and shove it! You are a nurse, just like the LPN. I see it and so do others. I would love to know what makes you smarter than an LPN? You aren't!! You are definitely not someone I would want to be my nurse or work with, the way you speak today. It sounds like boot camp for sick people, with someone with a power trip deciding whether or not you suffer in pain. Working with you probably equates to another nurse that has to be better than, more commonly know as a backstabber who runs to the DON with truth and lies, towards people you just don't like or find to be a threat to your intelligence.

Stop being so arrogant and condescending to other nurses. You sent a mixed message of superiority, to all nurses, being arrogant, stating you were a BSN. Big deal! Read up on this link questioning why BSN RNs are not paid differently than a diploma RN. Isn't this the topic being discussed and why you don't make a dime more than I do or a diploma RN? Didn't you read the topic and wonder why you wasted so much time, money, and effort, for the same pay?

Ginger, I strongly suggest that you take some time off work. I am trying to give you good advice. All nurses know the high demands put upon us, but your behavior or thoughts are not helping anyone around you . I have seen too many nurses, on some power trip, never get away from work. They never live much outside their work. You are much more than what you do for money.

Take a much needed break. You will find there are things that interest you, like an art class, with real people, in a social atmosphere. I think that you stopped relating to being human a long time ago, but are a very good nurse. You are more than what you do for money. There really is life outside of work, no matter how many hours we pull. I think that you are missing this aspect of your life.

I'm done with you Ginger and please take a look at the topic, Backstabber. You need to gain self confidence in differing aspects of life, not what you do for money. I bet that you are a miserable person to work with. Be kinder to people than what I am seeing.

my goodness! what all that fuzz ginger and wildflower, we write whats on our mind here, and everybody has the right to write down his/her opinion, Let's respect each other opinions. We are a team here.

Personally, I don't give a rats ass about your education. Are you a good person? Can you work well under pressure? Do you have the skills to do your job, and the gumption to ask for help, when, as we all do, you need it? Then (am I repeating) I don't give a rats about....

Mark Twain said it best (not an exact quote) "I've never let schooling get in the way of my education"

BTW, BSN

I believe experience does make the best skills and thus should be rewarded as such for example in clinical ladder programs. I also recognize that the BSN program has alot to offer and should also be rewarded. Most other professions do finacially reward those with higher degrees even when the assignment is the same. I don't think that one program is better than the other. Each person chooses a program based on their needs at the time. The current advantage of the BSN program is primarily for work other than "floor" nursing. I have seen many wonderful ADN's turned down for management positions based only on the fact of their degree. I love floor nursing right now but I chose the BSN because there will be a time I don't want to do it anymore. I know for me sometimes after 12 on the floor my body feels like it was hit by a semi.

WOW!! What a "discussion"!! I enjoy a good conversation, however, the use of name calling (i.e troll) isn't really necessary. I can see that it's gotta be a blast working with a certain RN.........NOT!!!

Anyway, I think it's great when anyone obtains an education. BSNs usually have a less difficult time in obtaining leadership roles and may not be as confined to working a unit as an ADN. However, we do all take the same boards AND most other careers (that pay a higher wage to an individual with more education) don't have to take a nation-wide exam prior to applying or a job they've already trained years to do. My point... if we all take the state boards and work the same position (i.e staff nurse), why not receive the same pay?? The payoff comes when the BSN can walk off the unit to a "cushy" positon while my crippled butt is left to pace up and down those long hospital halls.

I have my ADN and proud!!! I've worked hard (as all of us did) to get these two initials after my name, RN . We need to support each other as we empty those bedpans, start IVs, transfuse blood, and pass those meds!!!! WE are the frontline of medicine and patient care. Can't we all just get along??

novice