Bachelor's Degree

Re: Bachelor's Degree

Kasey1248 wrote:

I will graduate in May with my RN. It will be an Associate Degree of Nursing. I've been debating on whether or not to get my Bachelor's degree in nurisng or not. I just wondered what everyone thought about this and the difference it really makes in working. Is it better if you have a BSN or not? Do you get paid more or what are the pros and cons of having it or not?

Get your BSN as soon as possible! The ANA always recommends this as entry level for all registered nurses. The additional education teaches you valuable critical thinking skills. There are so many more opportunities for B.S.N. nurses and many Magnet hospitals advocate for their nurses to have B.S.N.s. I can often tell the difference between nurses who have B.S.N.s and the ones who only have A.D.s. Should you decide to get your Masters, you are ready for that, instead of having to get your B.S.N. first. Depending on the facility, you do or don't get paid more, but it is an excellent negotiating point for higher salaries. Many entry level business jobs will not hire you without a 4 year degree. I think saving lives and making life-saving decisions should at least require a 4 year degree as well. And when you are lying in the hospital bed, wouldn't you want a nurse with the best education she could get? I would!!
Good luck and go for it! You will be glad you did!
Peace,
Skyla

I have had my ADN for about 3 years. I have worked with many nurses who are BSN prepared and will have my BSN in 1 year as I have been working on it part time. However, I do not think that BSN nurses are any more prepared than an ADN nurse. The majority of my charge nurses that I worked with in a MAGNET FACILITY were ADN prepared and much easier to work with than some other higher prepared nurses. I do not believe that BSN teaches more critical thinking skills. The additional nurses classes I'm taking for my BSN are related to management and community based nursing. Critical thinking skills are taught the same in ADN and BSN programs. And I know many nurses that believe you don't develop those skills until you have been working anyway. Saying you know how and actually doing so are 2 completely different things. And there were a few BSN prepared nurses that I have worked with that were quite as good with critical thinking and common sense as my ADN coworkers. Oh, and I have been ANCC certified since fall in my field too, so don't think ADN nurses are any less prepared than a BSN nurse.
There are places in the country where you either have to have or be working on you BSN to work as a RN. However, in many states and areas, it makes absolutely no difference as far as pay or job which one you have. What they want is the license thereby passing the NCLEX.
I say work and go back for you BSN when you're ready. I would worry more about orientation and getting settled in your job for the first few months before starting though.
And I have been working on my BSN because I do want my masters, I enjoy education and I have a wonderful support system from my family, especially an uncle, and my friends who think I can do anything I put my mind too.

ljane05 wrote:

I have had my ADN for about 3 years. I have worked with many nurses who are BSN prepared and will have my BSN in 1 year as I have been working on it part time. However, I do not think that BSN nurses are any more prepared than an ADN nurse. The majority of my charge nurses that I worked with in a MAGNET FACILITY were ADN prepared and much easier to work with than some other higher prepared nurses. I do not believe that BSN teaches more critical thinking skills. The additional nurses classes I'm taking for my BSN are related to management and community based nursing. Critical thinking skills are taught the same in ADN and BSN programs. And I know many nurses that believe you don't develop those skills until you have been working anyway. Saying you know how and actually doing so are 2 completely different things. And there were a few BSN prepared nurses that I have worked with that were quite as good with critical thinking and common sense as my ADN coworkers. Oh, and I have been ANCC certified since fall in my field too, so don't think ADN nurses are any less prepared than a BSN nurse.
There are places in the country where you either have to have or be working on you BSN to work as a RN. However, in many states and areas, it makes absolutely no difference as far as pay or job which one you have. What they want is the license thereby passing the NCLEX.
I say work and go back for you BSN when you're ready. I would worry more about orientation and getting settled in your job for the first few months before starting though.
And I have been working on my BSN because I do want my masters, I enjoy education and I have a wonderful support system from my family, especially an uncle, and my friends who think I can do anything I put my mind too.

Again, I stress that saving lives and making life-saving decisions must, have, at the very least, a four year degree. There is a growing movement to make all R.N.s, Master-level prepared. I say, the more education, the better. ALWAYS. Entry level should be B.S.N., and this will always be unpopular with R.N.s who are only ADN prepared. And you know this to be true as you are getting your own BSN. The ANA support all entry level RNs to have BSNs. Let us move forward and not backwards with saying that an ADN is "good enough" for such important work. Because it is not.

I'm only responding to the last comment to say that I DO NOT feel under qualified as an ADN prepared nurse, nor do I feel I was undereducated. I am getting my BSN simply because I am very big fan of education, and as I have said, a lot of it has to do more with my family wanting me to keep going. I am looking forward to havin my BSN simply for my own reward not because I have been underqualified as an ADN. As I have said I am ANCC certified in my field and mostly because the MAGNET hospital I worked at pushed for nurses ADN OR BSN to be certified in their field of working, which you cant even take the test until you have worked about 2 years and have a certain number of CEU"s. Obviously, if I was underqualified as a nurse I would not have been able to pass the test!
I will again repeat that for the 1st 2 years of a BSN program, it is all generals anyway and then you start nursing classes for 2 years and then a preceptor. For the ADN program, you have 2 years of nursing classes and a preceptor. There are just a few generals that ADN nurses dont take than BSN nurses do take - and those are classes that are touched on in each section of the ADN nursing classes. I have compared programs with BSN nurses many times.
Do not feel rushed into getting your BSN. I think you should focus more on getting through orientation and getting settled into your job rather than trying to do that and study for the classes for your BSN.

No matter what your background is, as a new grad orientation is a big deal and there to help you get settled into your job. Take advantage of that and don't stress out over school work until you're ready to go back.

There is nothing wrong with being an ADN prepared nurse - I have found absolutely no one telling me I'm unprepared and inadequate as a nurse - until now anyway.

Quote:

Obviously, if I was underqualified as a nurse I would not have been able to pass the test

Passing a test DOES NOT make you a good nurse. Many great nurses needed more than one go round to pass the test. Passing a test like the NCLEX only means you know how to pass a test. It doesn't mean that you have great character or ethics, that you understand or care about your patients, or that you can think above the tasks that are in front of you.

The benefit of more education is that it equips you with more than one perspective or approach to thinking through a problem or a set of problems. I'm entirely in favor of more education for everyone, however, I am not in favor of more degrees. For example:

Sally Smith, RN, BSN, MBA, JD, PHD (and I've seen some nurses sign off on everything like this).

I am in favor of learning so that you can think better.

And BTW, in most countries except the US, to wear the title Professional Nurse, you have to have a bachelor's degree.

OK, I can't let this one go...I am an ADN educated nurse and must speak up. I have worked 6+ years in emergency medicine with two of those being a charge nurse in a busy Level II trauma center. More letters behind your name and two more years of school do not necessarily teach you critical thinking skills. And as far as being able to save lives, I defibrillated a women, ran TPA, triaged and prioritized multiple patients arriving at the same time (in a small rural hosp with a 6 bed ED) before I was even off orientation. I agree that education is important, but there is also something to be said for a "real life" education. EMT's are taught life saving skills without a four year degree, I've known CNA's and techs with more critical thinking skills than some master's prepared nurses I've known. Just because you have more education does not make you more skilled. We can all take and pass or fail tests, competencies, and certifications. When the chips are down, no one asks you to show your degree before you take care of them. As an ADN, I am not treated any differently by co-workers, facilities, or agencies. I am not paid any less. Bachelor's programs prepare you for management and administrative nursing, but no more clinical nursing than an ADN program. I do not feel you should treat someone better or worse based on their level of education, and I know I would not want a collegue to do this to me or any other nurse.

Skyla, I think that maybe you should take a look at some of the nurses you work with, you may be surprised that some of them are ADN prepared, and you may have never known the difference. Shocked

Ginger Snap, amen! More education does not mean more degrees, and just because you passed a test does not prove that you can function under fire! And that's when it really counts because there is a patient depending on you! Exclamation

Kasey1248, relax and get comfortable with your skills. Settle into your new profession before stressing if you need to go back to school! :wink:

nightcat wrote:

OK, I can't let this one go...I am an ADN educated nurse and must speak up. I have worked 6+ years in emergency medicine with two of those being a charge nurse in a busy Level II trauma center. More letters behind your name and two more years of school do not necessarily teach you critical thinking skills. And as far as being able to save lives, I defibrillated a women, ran TPA, triaged and prioritized multiple patients arriving at the same time (in a small rural hosp with a 6 bed ED) before I was even off orientation. I agree that education is important, but there is also something to be said for a "real life" education. EMT's are taught life saving skills without a four year degree, I've known CNA's and techs with more critical thinking skills than some master's prepared nurses I've known. Just because you have more education does not make you more skilled. We can all take and pass or fail tests, competencies, and certifications. When the chips are down, no one asks you to show your degree before you take care of them. As an ADN, I am not treated any differently by co-workers, facilities, or agencies. I am not paid any less. Bachelor's programs prepare you for management and administrative nursing, but no more clinical nursing than an ADN program. I do not feel you should treat someone better or worse based on their level of education, and I know I would not want a collegue to do this to me or any other nurse.

Skyla, I think that maybe you should take a look at some of the nurses you work with, you may be surprised that some of them are ADN prepared, and you may have never known the difference.

Ginger Snap, amen! More education does not mean more degrees, and just because you passed a test does not prove that you can function under fire! And that's when it really counts because there is a patient depending on you!

Kasey1248, relax and get comfortable with your skills. Settle into your new profession before stressing if you need to go back to school! :wink:

I noticed many of these comments come from only ADN prepared nurses who are very sensitive to their lack of a higher education. This is a common problem among ADN prepared nurses; being sensitive about their lesser degree. LPNS feel they do as good a job as an ADN nurse and an ADN nurse feels she or he does as good a job as a BSN nurse. Of course, I am aware that many fine nurses (and I work with them) are only ADN prepared with years of great experience. But until all nurses agree that entry-level must be AT LEAST a 4 year degree, we will never have full recognition of the value of what we do from the professional community, and the ANA agrees which is why they advocate for BSN as minimum entry level.
There was a time when nurses did not want to go to a college at all, feeling diploma programs were enough. We must continue to move forward, not stay stagnant, because nurses are afraid of a higher degree. Recent studies are out now showing that patients fare better and are better cared for by nurses with BSNs. That reason alone should be enough for any hospital to require all of their nurses to be BSN prepared.
Bachelor programs DO NOT just prepare you for management and administration programs. You are trained for better critical thinking as well as a multitude of issues regarding culture, ethics, leadership, and so much more! Many management programs now require a MSN minimum.
In some cities, ADN programs have been discontinued and all there are are BSN programs. In Atlanta, as my former university stated, we will never go back to an ADN program. Why would we want to go backwards?
Amen to that!!!
Of course, more education does not mean more degrees, but you don't know what you are missing until you get there into a classroom. Our hospital was able to achieve Magnet status due to the high number of BSN prepared nurses working there.
Our patients DESERVE a nurse with the best possible education she or he can get!! It takes a 4 year degree to design computer software? Let's make our nurses have, at least, a 4 year degree to help save people's lives. You can word it any way you choose, but it is tragic that a 4 year degree is not a requirement by law to make life-saving decisions. Why must a physician require 12 years of education and it is okay with you that registered nurses have a mere ADN??? We MUST require a 4 year degree and I am active in a committee within the ANA to make that happen.
Kasey, the time to move into the future of nursing is NOW!!! Good luck and get your BSN! You will be so glad you did!
Best wishes!
Skyla

Skyla, I have a BSN and I don't feel threatened by anyone's education (I've taken a few master's level courses). What I have noticed is that our profession has a propensity for attracting people who are achievement-oriented, and can't relax and enjoy what they have now. There's a certain amount of low self esteem going on here ("I'm not good enough without at least a Master's degree, because then I'm JUST A NURSE and no one will take me seriously with those credentials"). All of this is a setup for unrealistic expectations (you do have to have a life outside of your job, it's not all about achieving a certain status). At some point in your life, you have to decide that MORE DEGREES won't buy you career satisfaction, only better performance on the job.

Ginger Snap wrote:

Skyla, I have a BSN and I don't feel threatened by anyone's education (I've taken a few master's level courses). What I have noticed is that our profession has a propensity for attracting people who are achievement-oriented, and can't relax and enjoy what they have now. There's a certain amount of low self esteem going on here ("I'm not good enough without at least a Master's degree, because then I'm JUST A NURSE and no one will take me seriously with those credentials"). All of this is a setup for unrealistic expectations (you do have to have a life outside of your job, it's not all about achieving a certain status). At some point in your life, you have to decide that MORE DEGREES won't buy you career satisfaction, only better performance on the job.

And no one is proposing the notion that "more degrees" can promote career satisfaction. I love being a RN. That is not the issue. I argue it is a VERY realistic expectation to achieve higher education, and that we SHOULD, as a profession, continue to progress and grow. This is why the nursing profession has become what it is today. If you are happy with who you are as a RN, fine. I say I am an excellent RN, but I WANT a MSN to do more as a nurse. A BSN allows me to do more, and a MSN allows me to do even more. As in ANY profession, more education, and a higher degree has power. Try getting into an entry level position in the business world with only community college as a starter. You will be easily passed over for someone with a BA or a MBA. I perused the career section of today's paper, and sure enough, many of the job ads for RNs stated, "BSN required." The original question was from a recent graduate asking if she should obtain her BSN. The answer from many professional organizations, from many learning institutions, and from research studies is a resounding YES.

Good job Kasey!
1st off Welcome to the nursing field Kasey. Good choice!

I earned a ADN back in 1989 and have done everything with it! I've worked ICU to rehab been a charge nurse, been a code leader, taught ACLS, worked in Quality, Infection control, JCAHO compliance(helped earned our facility 2 of the highest scores ever afforded to any hospital in our system, been an honorarium lecturer for our state P.R.O., had my data and story board displayed at a national convention of the P.R.O's, have been published in an research article(my data), developed forms used every day at our facility, all with my little ol' ADN!

I think it's very sad we are begging for nurses and some of you people think it's necessary to only have a 4 year degree to save lives. How sad. Something to consider Kasey: EVEN if you had a BSN and being a GREEN HORN. No ONE is going to hire you to MANAGE a unit, or be the CNO! Big Deal get your feet wet and be a Med surg nurse for a couple of years! Where I work you don't make anymore money having a ADN VS a BSN.

In my opinion this whole latest BSN vs. ADN stems from Magnet hospitals and the AACN. PEE-YEW! It stinks of another acccrediting body that needs to pay all of its Master prepared nurses wages....LOL! They report that they want better patient outcomes but yet a facility must pay through the nose in fees to evaluaters, surveyors, etc..... The crazy thing is. None of these concepts are new. All of the P.R.O's have guidelines to prevent Surgical wound infections, guidelines to reduce falls, better outcomes for Afib, CHF, AMI, Stroke, and Pneumonia patients, just plain old better patient care and it's for freeeeee. Little bit of elbow grease and some free information from you local P.R.O and you, too can be on your way to a better patient outcomes. WOW I said, "better patient outcomes" and I don't have my BSN.

Well Kasey I am getting my Bachelor's in Nursing but it's only so I can get my Master's so I can be a NP and be free from some Masters prepared nurse who have no idea how people out in the real world - SAVES LIVES!

The best BIG DEGREE nurses get there with their assosciates first!

P.S. the best students to work with are in order 1st - LPN, ADN, BSN STUDENTS WITH SOME KIND OF NURSING EXPERIENCE, and then GREENHORN BSN's.

AMEN and THANK YOU ADNURSE1st. Thank you for saying what I have been unable to put into the right words!

BTW
One more point about education. Think about this!

EMS personnel have 2 year degrees and they save lots of lives and are great practioners! Why doesn't this arguement apply to them! I don't hear anyone screaming for them to have huge degrees!

Now who do you want in the field intubating you or your family member?

This big degree thing has elementary education screwed up as far as I'm concerned as well. Do teachers with Master's degrees teaching your Kindergartener make $120,000 a year. It's a sad shame that the only way universities can get people into their schools is to lobby people and come up with studies showing better outcomes with higher and higher degrees. A wise diploma nurse once told me, "When all else fails manipulate the data."

YEAH ADNURSE 1ST!!!!!!! Very Happy

You speak my very mind, and thanks for the EMS plug!! They are so close to my heart given my sister began her nursing career as an EMT (she is a BSN), I began my career as an EMT, my husband is an EMT-I, and I have so many close friends that are EMT's and Paramedics. Give me one of them taking care of me any day!

Skyla, I am not sensitive to "my lack of higher education" as you put it, I am sensitive to someone judging me before they have worked along side me because they assume I am not educated enough. And I do not discourage anyone from attaining a higher degree if that is their ambition. Just do not forget that some of us choose to educate through stepping stones (CNA and/or EMT, LPN, ADN, BSN, MSN, NP), and respect the person for their work, their pt. care, and the person they are, not the letters behind their name. This just proves that nurses still eat their young instead of being supportive and nurturing to each other. Crying or Very sad

nightcat wrote:

YEAH ADNURSE 1ST!!!!!!! You speak my very mind, and thanks for the EMS plug!! They are so close to my heart given my sister began her nursing career as an EMT (she is a BSN), I began my career as an EMT, my husband is an EMT-I, and I have so many close friends that are EMT's and Paramedics. Give me one of them taking care of me any day!

Skyla, I am not sensitive to "my lack of higher education" as you put it, I am sensitive to someone judging me before they have worked along side me because they assume I am not educated enough. And I do not discourage anyone from attaining a higher degree if that is their ambition. Just do not forget that some of us choose to educate through stepping stones (CNA and/or EMT, LPN, ADN, BSN, MSN, NP), and respect the person for their work, their pt. care, and the person they are, not the letters behind their name. This just proves that nurses still eat their young instead of being supportive and nurturing to each other.

I was thinking the same thing with your response about nurses eating their own!
Nursing no longer needs to be "stepping stones". Again, the ANA advocates for entry level as BSN prepared nurses. This is not the argument whether some choose to use stepping stones. Some, will achieve thier goal in this manner, fine. The argument is, we, as a nursing profession must have entry level nurses with BSNs. No more patchwork of education. This is true of doctors, physical therapist, PAs, repiratory therapists, and many nurses. Why must this be any different for the nursing profession as a whole? And the problems with this stem from nurses. This IS the present and future expectations that all nurses will be entry level BSN educated.
No one is judging you. Research has shown that many nurses with ADNs resent, unfortunately, do resent other nurses with BSNs. And the responses here is proof of that. Instead of recognizing the NEED, you view it as a personal affront. Also recognize this would not even be an issue if all nurses had BSNs to begin with so you prove my point. Which is why the medical profession wonders why there is this problem in nursing.
They don't know if they are talking to an LPN who is limited in what she can do or a RN. If you are a good nurse, no one will respect you any less. This is not the argument.
No one, in their responses, has touched the research study that reported patients did better with BSN prepared nurses. Evidenced-based practice must be the foundation of all nursing practice.

Re: BTW

ADNURSE1ST wrote:

One more point about education. Think about this!

EMS personnel have 2 year degrees and they save lots of lives and are great practioners! Why doesn't this arguement apply to them! I don't hear anyone screaming for them to have huge degrees!

Now who do you want in the field intubating you or your family member?

This big degree thing has elementary education screwed up as far as I'm concerned as well. Do teachers with Master's degrees teaching your Kindergartener make $120,000 a year. It's a sad shame that the only way universities can get people into their schools is to lobby people and come up with studies showing better outcomes with higher and higher degrees. A wise diploma nurse once told me, "When all else fails manipulate the data."

And that "wise" diploma nurse speaks like an uneducated nurse and most unwise!!! Only the truly ignorant fail to see the value of evidence-based practice. Fortunately, in my research, thoughts like that from diploma nurses are fading fast!!!!!!

So you're talking about nurses eating their own...my opinion right now is that this is because of nures like you who think we can only practice as a BSN! I would not enjoy being an ADN nurse who had to orientate with you. I have spoken to many of my FRIENDS who are BSN prepared and the funny thing is, many of them have more respect for the ADN prepared nurses we've worked with than some of our supposed BSN prepared or even a MSN prepared nurse!
I have yet to meet a ADN prepared nurse who has fewer critical thinkingskills than a BSN nurse. You will learn a BASIS for those skills in school whether ADN or BSN, but you don't develop them until you're working and without common sense, the school aint worth a thing.

"If you are a good nurse, no one will respect you any less. This is not the argument" -- heres another problem - you have told every one of us that is ADN prepared that we aren't as good a nurse as you because you have a BSN and that we can't do any critical thinking because we're only ADN prepared. and as far as saying no one is judging us, reread your post skyla, you have judged every one of us that doesn't have a BSN - oh and I did do 4 years of college to get my nursing degree - 2 years of generals and 2 years of nursing just like a BSN nurse would!

Yeah, PA's need to have a 4 year degree to enter the PA program...i know the program I've had people go to is a 2 YEAR PA PROGRAM - that sounds like a ADN nurse length program to me!
I have no problems with a BSN prepared nurse - like i said MANY of my friends are BSN prepared nurses and more of those are outside of work friends who agree with me that a BSN doesn't make a better nurse. I can't believe that in the nursing shortage we have and will continue to have, that you are convinced that everyone has to be a BSN prepared nurse to even start working! You must have no problem working with twice as many patients as is safe. Or is it that you think a BSN prepared nurse can handle twice as many patients safely? Maybe that's it...must be.

See, you'll also mentioned that your responses are from only ADN nurses...well, lets see maybe the majority of BSN prepared nurses have no problem working with an ADN prepared nurse!

Skyla you have a lot of nerve. I never called you stupid as you have done here to me and I don't think I'm eating my young! You need to look at that finger your pointing because there are 4 more pointing back at you!

Let's just be factual and honest!

I understand about better patient outcomes thorugh evidence-based practice. I know all about it, another term for it is Performance Improvement , and I understand the most recent Bachelor's degree study performed at the UNIVERSITY of Penn, Nursing school. It makes since that there study would say this it supports their school. It's ONE study. If you were in a more rural area and one of the ADN schools did a study what do you think there evidence would show!

What cracks me up is that our local University tried to do a 2 year program back in the late 80's they couldn't even get accreditated and were pushed to a BSN program......... So I went to one of the ACCREDITED Assosciate nursing programs in our state! A high rate of nurses couldn't even pass the boards from our 4 year program. I don't think you realize how it is that BSN programs came into existence.

I think the problem your dealing with is Demographics I live in a more rural area than you in Georgia and you can pretty much count on one hand how many Universities we have and only one University in the state has a nursing program. Where I live it does not require you to have a 4 year degree to work on computers. My uncle has a 2 year degree and works at GORMAN - you know the GPS and night vision people! I aslo have a friend with a 2 year degree who works for Symantecs(you know your Antivirus software- Norton, well and most every software that's not owned by MS) and they're not janitors, either! Speaking of computers and Microsoft did you know that Bill Gates never attended college and has a very successful business??? Not all of us live in big cities!

You are the one who brought up how dim you think ADN nurses are because of our lack of degree and your personal experience with some nurses and I think this pissed off a few of us so-called undereducated. nurses. The nurse who trained me in ICU is our resident cardiac expert has a ADN the doctors look to her for consults, she wrote a book on EKG interprettation. I just can't believe that a nurse in his day an age with your education would would have such and UNDIVERSE or bias view of their peers. Alos Docs go to school for 12 years so they can tell you the nurse what to do! That's why they get paid the REALLY big bucks!

Skyla, I almost think you work for the AACN, maybe your a MAGNET surveyor. I personally feel that the BENNER MODEL OF nursing is an excellent model it's based upon experience and skill not just education alone! I'm all about furthering education.

Again Kasey you can come work with me any time! I'd be gald to work with you! I'm degree neutral a good nurse is a good nurse no matter how you slice them! DO what's best for you and the path you want to run, because as far as I can see there is no end to this nursing shortage. You'll always find a job - You are a nurse. Be very proud of your ADN, you worked equally as hard for it and you have the ability to be as good if not better.

ADNURSE1ST and ljane05,

Thank you for seeing my point...I don't really care if a nurse has a BSN or ADN or whatever, or if they went straight to BSN, came through the ranks yada yada yada. I was just pissed off that someone (a fellow nurse even) thought that if you didn't have a bachelors, you were not as smart, nor could give excellent critical care, period. It just opened up so many other topics and situations.

And yes, when you point fingers, you better be careful cuz those other three can get you into some pretty hot water!!! (I've always loved that saying)

BTW nice comments in the other topic discussion, LMAO!!!! Laughing

ADNURSE1ST wrote:

Skyla you have a lot of nerve. I never called you stupid as you have done here to me and I don't think I'm eating my young! You need to look at that finger your pointing because there are 4 more pointing back at you!

Let's just be factual and honest!

I understand about better patient outcomes thorugh evidence-based practice. I know all about it, another term for it is Performance Improvement , and I understand the most recent Bachelor's degree study performed at the UNIVERSITY of Penn, Nursing school. It makes since that there study would say this it supports their school. It's ONE study. If you were in a more rural area and one of the ADN schools did a study what do you think there evidence would show!

What cracks me up is that our local University tried to do a 2 year program back in the late 80's they couldn't even get accreditated and were pushed to a BSN program......... So I went to one of the ACCREDITED Assosciate nursing programs in our state! A high rate of nurses couldn't even pass the boards from our 4 year program. I don't think you realize how it is that BSN programs came into existence.

I think the problem your dealing with is Demographics I live in a more rural area than you in Georgia and you can pretty much count on one hand how many Universities we have and only one University in the state has a nursing program. Where I live it does not require you to have a 4 year degree to work on computers. My uncle has a 2 year degree and works at GORMAN - you know the GPS and night vision people! I aslo have a friend with a 2 year degree who works for Symantecs(you know your Antivirus software- Norton, well and most every software that's not owned by MS) and they're not janitors, either! Speaking of computers and Microsoft did you know that Bill Gates never attended college and has a very successful business??? Not all of us live in big cities!

You are the one who brought up how dim you think ADN nurses are because of our lack of degree and your personal experience with some nurses and I think this pissed off a few of us so-called undereducated. nurses. The nurse who trained me in ICU is our resident cardiac expert has a ADN the doctors look to her for consults, she wrote a book on EKG interprettation. I just can't believe that a nurse in his day an age with your education would would have such and UNDIVERSE or bias view of their peers. Alos Docs go to school for 12 years so they can tell you the nurse what to do! That's why they get paid the REALLY big bucks!

Skyla, I almost think you work for the AACN, maybe your a MAGNET surveyor. I personally feel that the BENNER MODEL OF nursing is an excellent model it's based upon experience and skill not just education alone! I'm all about furthering education.

Again Kasey you can come work with me any time! I'd be gald to work with you! I'm degree neutral a good nurse is a good nurse no matter how you slice them! DO what's best for you and the path you want to run, because as far as I can see there is no end to this nursing shortage. You'll always find a job - You are a nurse. Be very proud of your ADN, you worked equally as hard for it and you have the ability to be as good if not better.

Now, where in the world did I ever call you "stupid"? I believe the discussion of this topic clearly demonstrates why nurses MUST be BSN educated as entry level nurses. TOO much confusion and unnessary argument as to one degree versus another degree!! Do you understand what is being proposed here? I do not believe you understand. Try reading what I am saying instead of REACTING to some perceived attack on your part.
Your very statement of "Doctors go to school to tell nurses what to do", tells me you have other issues that cannot be addressed here.
You are letting emotion get in the way of logic and sound arguments.
I am currently an R.N., B.S.N. (entry level) in my last year in a graduate program for my M.S.N. as an FNP. I will then advance to a DNP, a doctorate in NP. I teach undergraduate nursing students in a B.S.N. program and I also work on a surgical floor in a large hospital. The hospital I work in no longer hires ADN entry level (AS NEW GRADS) nurses. We achieved Magnet status this year.
Know that MANY, many RNs support what is being advocated, and not just speaking for "someone I work for." FYI, there are several studies that support nurses should obtain their BSN entry level. Demographics are always taken into account in the samples used in order to insure validity or it would not be considered a valid study. I understand full well why and how BSN programs came into existence and also became NECESSARY.
Finally, you are incorrect. Bill Gates went to Harvard.

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