All deeds are not equal. The result of some are stronger than others. Typically a criminal is haunted by the crime - even when sorry and forgiven.

I do not wish that upon anyone. There must be a way to sort out that kind of bad karma. Though it is there responsibility to do so.

There is one reason I find it difficult to see that TF can completly clean up and reconcile with and be forgiven with crimes done in the past. I will quote
Acheick:
http://xchildrenofgod.xfamily.org/viewtopic.php?t=436&start=0
"Even if TF has cleaned up its sexual abuse that was going on in its heyday, the underlying premise is still a sexual liberty that somehow will get down the pike to the children. Besides that, there is the deception that TF uses to get people to fund their group."

Believe me, it does get down the pike to the children.

As long as TF holds on to their contrary beliefs, I think anyone wanting forgivness must leave TF and denounce it's teaching from their heart.

TF has whitewashed their doctrines. Most FGAs would honestly answer something like: "It is OK to have sex with minors as long as it is done in love. But the system won't allow it So it's best for us not to because we could get in trouble." Not to mention issues of fornication and adultery which they of course would not even understand the meaning of since the concept of monogamy is unfathomable to most them.

"It is OK to have sex with minors as long as it is done in love. But the system won't allow it So it's best for us not to because we could get in trouble."

Although I realize it´s not likely to ever happen, it would be interesting to read this statement to leaders of TF in front of a TV camera and observe their physical reaction and verbal response when asked if they agreed with this statement or not. Although I´ve got to hand it to them, they´re quite disciplined and methodical in their TV appearances. However, there are certain perceptible physical reactions which can be measured and analyzed, and cannot be disguised by any amount of theatrics.

This is the same sort of rational that caused the Mormons to alter their doctrine on poligamy.

With time, maybe
Peter and other leaders (particularly those with FCF) desperately want legitimacy and acceptance as evangelical Christians. They hoped to get this through the work of apologists like James Chancellor and hiding behind incorporation laws governing subsidiaries like FCF.

What I'm suggesting about restorative justice is related to Lauren's essay on forgiveness and what Safe Passage Foundation may hope to accomplish for children growing up in high demand organizations like TFI.

The thing about CoG/Tf is that they preach an unorthodox form of evangelicalism. Their basic Gospel message is , "Pray, ask Jesus into your heart, and Hey Presto--salvation!"

This is not the Biblical Gospel, nor is it one that was ever preached by the Apostles in the Bible.

They seek legitimisation--they seek acceptance from the apostate religious system.

Re: With time, maybe


Where can someone find Lauren's essay on forgiveness?

Lauren Stevens wrote an essay on Apologies from TFI and what it would take for those apologies to bring about reconciliation with people hurt by Family practices and policies. She sums up the reconciliation process in seven steps at the end of her essay:

http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Allegations_of_Apologies

What a moving essay. I understand better what BlackELk was referring to now. Thank you.

Very well expressed.

Jules posted some research on the MO site about 10 months ago that is pertinent to discussion of apology, reconciliation, restorative justice

She wrote



I haven't read the article through completely and digested it yet. I'm much pressed for time in the next 5 days. It would be great if someone interested in this topic gave it a read and spit back impressions on this thread. Here's a link to the article at MO:

http://www.movingon.org/article.asp?sID=1&Cat=31&ID=3443

Here's a direct link to the research article Jules posted:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12380424&dopt=Abstract

It's a good article. I has some very good concepts and studies on appology and forgiveness.

I wonder about one thing though:
I, having never been sexually abused, feel such pain and terror when I know and hear other people's stories, especially those close to me. It is very difficult for someone in my position to forget about it. Why? Because how can I forget about it, when I know that my friends are suffering. I pain with them, and my heart crys with them. How do I know when justice has been served? Therefore I agree with Tavuchis in that article: Tavuchis suggests that when someone apologizes, he or she is in the position of seeking unconditional pardon in the context of being unworthy of an act that can be neither forgotten nor forsaken.

Those acts can neither be forgotten nor forsaken. TF name and leadership and all the criminal should not only be punished, but always remembered with the words and cries of the victims.

"To apologize is to declare voluntarily that one has no excuse, defense, justification, or explanation for the action. Implicit in this is the agreement to accept the consequences—social, legal, and otherwise—that flow from having committed the wrongful act."

They must do just that. It must be voluntary. Or else how can we forgive. As Jesus said in the Bible,

Luke 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, "It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! "
Luke 17:2 "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."
Luke 17:3 "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. "
Luke 17:4 "And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. "

Has TF repented?
Repent:
1. To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite.
2. To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it: repented of intemperate behavior.
3. To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins.

I think not.

That is how I feel about it especially when TF leadership continue to hate us and call us insane and ridiculous liars possesed with demons. They wage war on us with their prayers and GNs. They hate us with their attitudes. They wound us and then starve us, some of us to death, by not appologizing.

The article Apology, Justice and Trauma Recovery brings out a number of interesting, but disheartening points relating to victims of abuse and their quest for truth, healing and justice. The authors address the benefits and/or lack thereof, as well as the possibility of more harm caused from: apologies, victim impact statements, restorative and retributive justice, "truth commissions", forgiveness and reparations. The following quotes are a few examples suggesting the possible negative effect these strategies may have.

In reference to apologies, they said “Because the courts do not accommodate the concept of apology, a victim may obtain monetary compensation or see the offender jailed, but cannot expect an apology. “…the time-honored privilege against incrimination of self has, in effect morphed into a prescription against the consolation of others [in the legal context]. They site a study which “suggests that the primary desire of victims of sexual assault who pursue civil litigation is to be heard and to obtain an apology; most are severely disappointed.â€

On restorative Justice
Years ago, in the mid nineties, I did a practicum at a Family organization where I worked as a volunteer Substance Abuse Counselor. I had finished my education and was completing a practicum. This was an excellent program where all people attending were referred from Child Protective Services and whole families were treated. The team was comprehensive with professionals in psychology, social work and other professions providing individual and group therapies. The program I worked with was up to two years and was three nights a week for three hrs.
Criteria to be in it as a client were CPS referral for Child abuse and neglect due to Chemical Dependency. Most children had been sexually abused and all areas of the problem were covered in therapy and therapeutic groups. You couldn't be a known serial molester and be in this program.
There was a family group which had a well prepared confrontation. Before it occurred the perpetrators and victims were assisted in how to do it . For example the perpetrators knew they were going to be confronted by their children and it occurred in the presence of all the families, volunteers and therapists. The victims/survivors wrote incidents over time and prepared for this confrontation. They wrote a number of significant occurrences utilizing incident writing. They read these incidents to the perpetrators.
It was understood before hand that the perpetrator could not explain, say "I'm sorry" or anything of the sort but instead just listened to each incident and then acknowledged it happened. "Yes. I remember that happened." or " I don't remember that happening but I believe you that it did" (because in a black out sometimes people do NOT remember some things they do).
It was very intense. Each person reading incidents had a chosen staff member who physically sat with them as they read each incident.
The whole program was very successful. Not with everyone of course, but it helped some families immensely. It was successful where families had perpetrators who probably never would have crossed those lines had they not been under the influence. Of course the ones that were serial predators who just happened to be caught who did not get anything from it but at least their victims did when what happened was acknowledged.
One family I worked with I remember the teen who cried about how she wanted her father to walk her down the aisle when she got married but she was very angry and felt she would never have that.
He was one of the people who successfully went through the program and stopped his addiction as well as the behavior that was harmful to his daughters and he did walk her down the aisle some years later.
Healing can happen and sometimes it happens for only one part of the family. Sounds like a good idea.
Oh, and part of the program was perpetrators looking at their past abuse that occured to them. but that was not the primary focus.
It was very powerful seeing the victims read their incidents and be acknowledged before all. It helped EVERYBODY involved.
I think for people that crossed the lines into pedophilia in the Family who were not like that to begin with something like this could be very helpful. This was a court ordered program.
Some of the painful parts of it was consoling children whose mothers chose to have the perpetrator live with them during the program which meant their children had to go elsewhere.
OR where children felt responsible for the fathers who had to leave feeling it was because of them rather than their father's behavior.
At least it was a safe place to talk about those emotions and to have the support of staff and of each other as they were going through it.

I whole-heartedly agree that there are some very good programs and therapists who are well trained in helping victims of abuse. And the ideas and methods behind "restorative justice" seem to have great potential, with only a few exceptions. But what saddens me though, is that in order to hopefully find some peace and justice, the victims have to re-live the horrors of their abuse, sometimes over and over. I wish there was a way to healing that did not involve further pain.