Cognomen

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Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 05:48 pm
Cognomen
Here is what "Cognomen" (probably NTL or Nathaniel; a member of TFI) has to say about xFamily.org:

Cognomen wrote:
The comparison to Hitler is highly offensive, not the least to the many Jewish members of our organization. I would hope that you in your search for facts would indeed go to third party sites for information. May I recommend the University of Virginia's page on us [http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/Family.html] or the information on us at the Center for the Study of New Religions in Italy found here [http://www.cesnur.org/testi/TheFamily/se_thefamily.htm] or if you would read some of the various scholarly books written about us such as "The Endtime Family: Children of God" by Dr. William Bainbridge published by State University of New York Press. There you will find honest third party information about us. If you rely only on sites like xFamily.org which it seems you have looked at and reposted information from here then you are getting a one-sided view of things. I know what I am saying here is going to make some of the other posters here howl as xFamily.org is their site and they are in diametric opposition to us. You might also look at the various legal actions initiated against the Family as a whole, not some that involved only individuals, as are often touted by some other posters here, and I believe you will see a different picture emerging. Again, I imagine you to be an honest seeker of truth here and I hope you will investigate with an open mind. Also, I do hope you will be more sensitive in future to how you label us and who you compare us to. It is highly offensive to label a group that has at times undergone intense persecution with someone who was manical dictator who persecuted and/or killed the parents and grandparents of some of my close friends in this group. --[[User2|Cognomen2]] 02:15, 11 August 2005 (UTC)


There are a number of problems with this post, IMO.

1. Consider Berg's "views" on Jews.
2. Consider that Gordon Melton is on the board of CENSUR.
3. I am not diametrically opposed to the group.

Cognomen wrote:
...to the many Jewish members of our organization.


Does anyone know how many "many" are? I thought they were a very small minority in that group?

Cognomen wrote:
It is highly offensive to label a group that has at times undergone intense persecution with someone who was manical dictator


Is it "intense persectution" or "intense scrutiny"? Was Lord Justice Ward a persecutor?

Also, what about how they treat and describe their detractors? Wouldn't most find it "highly offensive"
 
Monger 1
 
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 06:15 pm
FYI for anyone who is interested, the above quote was taken from the discussion about the article on The Family at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Children_of_God

Thorwald wrote:
Cognomen wrote:
...to the many Jewish members of our organization.

Does anyone know how many "many" are? I thought they were a very small minority in that group?

There is probably a tiny minority of Israelis (if any) in the group, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Family has a reasonable number of individuals with Jewish heritage.
 
Indian Joe 1
 
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 07:09 pm
I couldn't belive that he brought up the concept that something said could offend their Jewish population. I immediately rememberd the "God damned anti-christ jews" comments from Berg. I was glad when they were immediately brought into the conversation.

I think it is kind of interesting that the Pro-COG editors seem to be trying to suggest a distance between TFI and Berg. I don't believe it, since F members I know still talk about Berg like he is God. I guess that this is the latest technique to get better PR following the huge media attention?
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 07:24 pm
I also find it somewhat disturbing how rampant deceit has become for current members of that group (FGA and SGA). It is no longer "deceivers yet true"; it is just "deceivers" . . . or, maybe "liars".

A prime example of this is how quickly and willingly they will deny any affiliation with their group when they are still very much a member.
 
Monger 1
 
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 08:55 pm
Indian Joe wrote:
I think it is kind of interesting that the Pro-COG editors seem to be trying to suggest a distance between TFI and Berg. I don't believe it, since F members I know still talk about Berg like he is God. I guess that this is the latest technique to get better PR following the huge media attention?

I have never seen Family members try to distance the group from Berg except in just such settings...when they are discussing controversial issues with outsiders. Whenever I've discussed Berg with Family members face to face, they're aware that I know how much he is truly revered by the group (I wouldn't go as far as saying they consider him God-like, but it's close) so their argument centers on why what he said or did wasn't so bad, is being taken out of context, or never happened.

Are the Family members who edit the Wikipedia article about TFI completely oblivious to the fact that the vast majority of GNs published by the group during the last decade up until today include supposed prophecies from Berg, with him leading the group and giving orders from beyond the grave? Not only that, but it is almost a certainty that those individuals "communicate" with him personally on a regular basis. In fact, receiving "prophecy" from Berg is such common practice that Zerby has published answers to questions from her followers about how he can be giving different messages to so many at the same time. -- Among the explanations was that he is able to repeatedly travel through time to the same moment at different locations, making him virtually omnipresent.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 09:08 pm
Monger wrote:
he is able to repeatedly travel through time to the same moment at different locations, making him virtually omnipresent.


If one can travel that way . . . what need have we for omnipresence?

Are these people for real?
 
Monger 1
 
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 09:41 pm
My favorite one-liner by Zerby ever is where she says she believes Space City is, at the same moment, both inside the moon and travelling through space towards earth in full view of NASA.

Karen Zerby wrote:
... You don't have to believe that NASA scientists got a glimpse of the Heavenly City [by photographing it with the Hubble Space Telescope], nor that it's located in the moon, if you don't want to--it's not one of our fundamental beliefs--but I believe it, because the Lord said it, and I have faith in that!

-- From World Currents No.84 [size=67](ML 3086)[/size]
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 09:56 pm
I wonder what she told her faithful flock when NASA simply retorted with this brief (emphasis mine):
Quote:

It's as big as Manhattan Island, is 10 trillion times denser than steel, and is hurtling our way at speeds over 100 times faster than a supersonic jet. An alien spaceship? No, it's a runaway neutron star, called RX J185635-3754, forged in a stellar explosion that was visible to our ancestors in 1 million B.C. Precise observations made with the Hubble telescope confirm that the interstellar interloper is the closest neutron star ever seen. The object also doesn't have a companion star that would affect its appearance. Now located 200 light-years away in the southern constellation Corona Australis, it will swing by Earth at a safe distance of 170 light-years in about 300,000 years.

(source)

I have a suggestion for Zerby, et. al.: Become VERY familiar with Google! Cross-check ALL of your prophecies against Google BEFORE you publish them. It might save you a bit of embarrassment. Of course, then you would deprive us all of our necessary doses of hilarity! Keep it up! Please! I need my laughs!
 
Monger 1
 
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 10:18 pm
(FYI, that is not in reference to the same thing. The above press release is dated November 9, 2000, whereas the text I quoted from Zerby was written in 1996.)

Speaking of prophecy and Google, a former GN prophet recently disclosed to me that she used to reseach all her knowingly fake prophecies' topics online, sometimes pulling text verbatim off the Web for them. When this was confessed to the leaders of her former home, she was told that if the "wine taster" (Zerby) approved them for publication, they must've been the real thing nevertheless. (And no, I'm not aware of how that makes sense either.)
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 10:24 pm
Monger wrote:
(FYI, that is not in reference to the same thing. The above press release is dated November 9, 2000, whereas the text I quoted from Zerby was written in 1996.)


Oh! My bad. Well, it is probably something very similar. Or, it could just be a hoax. Kind of like the "Ark on Ararat found!" fiasco.
 
Monger 1
 
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 10:47 pm
Thorwald wrote:
Well, it is probably something very similar. Or, it could just be a hoax. Kind of like the "Ark on Ararat found!" fiasco.

The only place Zerby got this stuff from is what she described as a "little tabloid-style article in an unnamed [Russian] newspaper". You absolutely must read the GN... it's just too good. Twisted Evil

Karen Zerby wrote:
WORLD CURRENTS!--No.84 Maria #359 DO 3086 9/96
--By Maria

Heavenly City Sighting!

1. (Mama:) I'd like to start off this Currents GN by sharing an amazing prophecy that we received while working on putting this GN together. I think you'll really enjoy it! It came about after I had read a testimony the Ministry Home in Hungary sent us in their TRF comments. Following is what they had to say:

2. We received a letter from a Russian girl, in which she enclosed an article from a Russian Christian newspaper. She did not write what newspaper this is from, but the article in itself is quite interesting. It's entitled "Glimpses of Heaven." Following is a rough translation of excerpts of the article:
3. "Washington -- NASA experts are doing a detailed study of hundreds of pictures sent to Earth by the Hubble telescope, which is presently in open space. The pictures are very remarkable because they are the first pictures of Heaven!
4. "This is what Marcia Masson, scientist and author of many books, tells us. And she got her information about this important event from a high-ranking source in NASA.
5. "The telescope pictures were received on March 26 by scientists of the Goddard Space Center, in Maryland. The pictures clearly show a huge white-gold city, freely floating in the blackness of the starry sky.
6. "Even the unbelievers among the NASA scientists agree that this is Heaven, because life as we all know is absolutely impossible in the freezing, airless space. The official NASA representatives withhold making any comments until the completion of the research. The leadership is silent, but the common workers are convinced that these pictures are able to completely change the life of humanity.
7. "President Clinton and Vice President Gore are keenly interested in the pictures and demand daily reports about the development of the research.
8. "Marcia Masson says: 'According to my NASA contact, the Hubble telescope, after noticing something at the very end of the universe, immediately sent a signal about it. However, the object was quite distant and the lenses couldn't focus on their own. That is why the first pictures were just a mixture of colors. After adjusting the lenses, the scientists could hardly believe their eyes! In front of them were shots of a wonderful city. In fact, the scientists right away suggested that a city like this couldn't have been built by normal human beings. More likely the city is populated by the souls of the departed dead. So the telescope discovered the dwelling place of the Lord God!'
9. "The pictures were immediately forwarded to the Pope. Nevertheless, so far the Vatican has not made any official statement about them." (End of the article. Along with the article there was a picture of a space city in the starry sky.)
10. Of course we don't know how true this article is, as there haven't been any confirmations regarding this, nor any articles in other newspapers, but it's encouraging to see that in these Last Days the Lord is giving people chance after chance, and is trying to make it easy for anyone to believe and receive Him.

11. (Mama:) After reading this testimony, I was interested to know whether it was indeed true or just made up. To our natural reasoning it sounds pretty far-fetched, but who knows? There was no way to get a confirmation but to ask the Lord: Did they really see something, and if so, what is it? How were they able to see it? Does this mean that the Heavenly City is presently visible in our physical dimension?--Or was the Lord giving them a glimpse of the supernatural and the world of the spirit?
12. I think you'll be amazed and inspired by the Lord's answer, as He opens the world of the spirit and reveals to us the mysteries of the universe! Isn't it amazing how the Lord loves us so much that He gives us, His simple little children, the answers to these questions? He not only answered them, but gave more information and insight, as well as confirming some things that He had revealed in the past through Dad.
13. Some of you may find all this pretty hard to believe, and may think that it's foolish to just go by some little tabloid-style article in an unnamed newspaper. Well, we're not going by the article, but by what the Lord said! You don't have to believe that NASA scientists got a glimpse of the Heavenly City, nor that it's located in the moon, if you don't want to--it's not one of our fundamental beliefs--but I believe it, because the Lord said it, and I have faith in that! And I find it pretty fascinating! Praise the Lord!

14. (Jesus speaking:) Have I not said that I would set signs and wonders in the sky? Therefore marvel not that I do this thing to encourage the faith of those who would believe. For My sheep hear My voice and they follow, and they see My signs and they see My wonders and they believe.
15. So I give glimpses of the great and golden City that you call Space, as it descends! Marvel not that I give unto these a sign, that those who see may believe and be encouraged that a better world is on its way.
16. But be not deceived, for Satan seeks to slip in. Satan walks about and attempts to slip a lie in here and slip a lie in there, as he freely runs to and fro, back and forth, weaving in his poisonous threads of false science. Watch, therefore, and pray, that you be not deceived. For within the tapestry Satan weaves threads of poisonous lies. I allow this that men may choose.
17. Take heed, therefore, that you discern the signs of the times, for Satan also seeks to put signs and wonders in the sky. He does this through the vehicle of science falsely so-called, as he conjures up false facts and pads the statistics with billions or zillions of light years away, which do not exist. The Evil One seeks to explain away My Truth; he seeks to tamper with the Truth, to alter it, and distort My pictures. Know that My City does not lie at the end of the universe--this is the tampering of Satan. My City is near! My City descends, and your redemption draws nigh!
18. Measure, therefore, all things with the standard of My pure, simple, unadulterated Word. Take heed that you follow not the way of the confused, complicated theories of man, lest you also be led away from the simplicity of My Truth. Not all that meets the eyes of man is the truth; for the eyes of man are often clouded through philosophy, through vain deceit, through the pride of life and the rudiments of this world, which are not of Me.
19. In this hour Satan weaves in his poison. Satan invents false truths, that he may lure those who do not discern with the eyes of faith. Satan seeks to cover up. Under the guise of "study" and "research," he bides his time that he may invent and falsify facts and figures and images for the masses. Satan would seek to cover up the truth, and bides his time by hindering the news from spreading abroad, that he may distort what I have shown, that he may add to and weave in his lies, with "explain away" theories.
20. Take heed, for Satan seeks to falsify and explain away even My pure pictures. I, the Master of the universe, speak and show glimpses into My Heavenly Realm, and Satan attempts to quickly enter in and jam the frequency to those who do not discern.
21. Therefore open your eyes of faith that you may see. For I, the Great and Almighty, do give a glimpse, a peek, to those who would see with the eyes of faith. I, the Creator of all things, do override the laws of science to encourage those who would believe. I pull back the veil and allow this glimpse to encourage the hearts of those who will believe. In love, I override the laws of science to allow this glimpse, this peek, into the real world--My world of the supernatural.
22. It is I that have adjusted the lens of the telescope that those who will believe may receive from My hand this touch of Heaven. I give this touch of Heaven to those who have not grown in faith, yet they seek to believe. Therefore I give them a sign, this small glimpse which I beam down through their telescope. I give them this glimpse through the vehicle of their telescope, which they can see and understand and relate to, that in My mercy they may be encouraged.
23. I would that these be encouraged and increase in faith, like My great scientists of time past, who learned as they ventured out into the great unknown that all they could see only taught them to believe in all they could not see with the human eye. So I give this glimpse, that the scientists of a pure heart may grow in faith.
24. I allow this peek into Heaven to encourage the hearts of My true scientists--to encourage the hearts of those who acknowledge My existence. For there are many, yea, even in the stations of NASA, who are hungry and searching for My Truth. I allow this to encourage the hearts of My lost children in forsaken lands who seek to believe.
25. Many are the lies of Satan, and many are his forces that run wild, up and down in the Earth, in this final attempt to lure the masses. So do I give this glimpse into the Heavenlies to encourage My true scientists, that they be not overcome by the evil. I wish to encourage the faith of these who are surrounded by many lies.
26. Have I not promised that I will set signs and wonders in the skies, that you may look up and know that redemption is nigh? Man is coming to a desperate state, and as the world grows darker and the night falls, I do allow glimpses of My Golden City to encourage believing hearts. Marvel not that I encourage the believing in heart, that they may look up and know that their redemption is near.
27. I am well pleased in this little one, Marcia, with the believing, childlike faith. Great is the reward of this one in Heaven--this one, Marcia, who hears and believes. She seeks to spread the good news that others would seek to cover up. This one of simple, childlike faith, who, having not seen, but only through word of mouth does believe and proclaim, "Heaven is here, it's here right now!" How the faith of this little one pleases Me, for I see her excitement--this one who would put the doubting intellectuals to shame!
28. Encourage this one. Show her more pictures of Heaven. For many are the true pictures of Heaven that I have given unto the children of David. Pray for her that her faith fail not. Teach her, and all those who would believe, that they need not a telescope to see Heaven. To those who would believe, to those who would ask and seek, I am able to show My Golden City, anywhere, anytime. Therefore encourage their faith. Behold how I have hidden these things from the wise and the prudent, and have revealed them unto babes.
29. And question not the descent of My Golden City, for did I not reveal unto David that My great City is on its way? Time and tide do not exist in the world of the spirit, but only in the realm of man. I open the believing eyes, and blind the seeing eyes according to My purpose. For this reason I do conceal My City in the moon, that it may be preserved and protected until that day when every eye will be opened and every eye will see. And yet I project this picture of My Golden City in all its purity as it journeys through the Heavenlies. For those who would believe, I do allow this glimpse of My City in space, for I am not bound by the tides of time. My City exists, it's real. It's not far off! (End of prophecy.)

30. (Mama:) Wow, what a scoop! We weren't the first to hear, but we're sure the ones who know more about it than anyone else!--Far more even than the scientists of NASA! Like the Lord said, He's concealed these things from the "wise and the prudent," but has revealed them unto babes--us!
31. What great treasures of Heaven He pours out upon His little brides who have nothing of their own, but only the riches that He has given them! If we would only realize how blessed, how privileged above all people on the face of the Earth we really are, we could never, ever complain or go looking for worldly knowledge. We would never feel inferior! We would never look with envy on anything the world has to offer!
32. How wonderful Jesus is to us! What amazing truth He pours down upon us, in such volume that we can't even grasp it or hold it all! All the mysteries of the Heavenlies are at our disposal! Jesus has promised to give them to us, if we will but ask and believe and receive. Let all the children of David praise the Lord, for He hath done for them great things! Marvelous are His works, and holy is His Name, and great is His Love for those who serve Him in humility and simplicity!


Source: World Currents No.84 [size=67](ML 3086)[/size]


A Google search offers a little more on this.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 11:10 pm
OMG!! Is that what they are producing these days? It is worse than when I was still in. Freaks!!

I thought this post/response was the best response. Nice! Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Andrew Thompson wrote:
I would just like to point out that in Meditation 256, the author of the web page touting the Hubble photos is at odds with creationism. For something to be 3 billion light years away means that it must have taken that light 3 billion years to get to earth. Consequently there must have been light 3 billion years ago. But according to the bible, heaven was created the same week as the earth.


Can any of you believe that we were once in this group? My greatness . . . it is like a misty dream from the 70s gone already worse than the 70s really were.

PS: I love that site's motto: "The Apathetic Agnostic: We don't know, and we don't care."
 
Monger 1
 
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 11:17 pm
Heh... But Jesus is apparently one step ahead of Andrew Thompson's heresy... see paragraphs 16 through 20 from the GN above for the Messiah's rebuttal, where he claims that Satan tampered with the photographs and "jammed the frequency" of the telescope in order in order to make heaven seem further away than it really is.
 
Thorwald 1
 
Reply Thu 11 Aug, 2005 11:20 pm
Ah, ha! Jesus is a sneaky little bastard, isn't he?

I didn't read it too carefully, otherwise I would have been given the wisdom of the keys . . . or, is it the keys of wisdom . . . or wisdom keys/teeth. Arg! I give up!
 
 

 
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