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evanman
 
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 05:13 am
In around 750 B.C. a Jewish prophet declared that a leader called Cyrus would cause the restoration of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

Quote:
The following is an account from King Cyrus which was found inscribed on a clay barrel now on display in the British Museum. He mentions how he conquered Babylon, returned exiles to their former lands, returned the articles of worship to the sacred cities and commanded that the temples where they worshiped be rebuilt. The Inscription reads:
The number of men in his army were so great, resembling that of water in a river, which could not be counted, marched forward, their weapons stashed away. Without engaging the enemy, he was able to enter Babylon without causing any damage to the city. Into my hands, Nabonidus was delivered, the king who did not worship him . . . "To the sacred cities located on the other side of the Tigris river, I sent back to the ruins of their holy places, the articles which were used in their sanctuaries. I also allowed to return to their homes the former citizens of the land, . . . I also made an effort to repair their dwelling places."

http://www.biblehistory.net/volume2/Cyrus.htm
 
Day 1
 
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 08:04 am
The Donald Rumsfeld puts it this way "...there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns-the ones we don't know we don't know." Smile
 
WalkerJ 1
 
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 10:02 am
evanman wrote:
In around 750 B.C. a Jewish prophet declared that a leader called Cyrus would cause the restoration of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

Evanman, you're obviously convinced the Bible is divinely inspired because you believe it contains fulfilled prophecies. Being an intelligent man, you've also, I'm sure, studied the counter arguments to your above example and have chosen to believe the Bible over those.

That's great if it makes you happy to believe in that way. You have every right to believe in the holy book of your choice.
 
evanman
 
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 10:36 am
WalkerJ wrote:
evanman wrote:
In around 750 B.C. a Jewish prophet declared that a leader called Cyrus would cause the restoration of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

Evanman, you're obviously convinced the Bible is divinely inspired because you believe it contains fulfilled prophecies. Being an intelligent man, you've also, I'm sure, studied the counter arguments to your above example and have chosen to believe the Bible over those.

That's great if it makes you happy to believe in that way. You have every right to believe in the holy book of your choice.


that goes for you and your belief also.
 
BlackELk
 
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 07:12 pm
Parting Thoughts (BE)
Biblical fundamentalists emphasize the diviinity in holy writ to the point of excluding reasonable knowledge of its human origins and traditions. Liberal scripture scholars emphasize the human sources and limitations of the Bible at the expense of simply accepting its divine inspiration.

The Incarnate Word is both God and man--a true mystery of faith and a conundrum of scientific investigation! The Living Word is not a puzzle or problem to be solved by logical argumentation; it is an existential mystery to be experienced and embraced--a sheer act of the will to power.
 
evanman
 
Reply Thu 29 Dec, 2005 11:41 am
Re: Parting Thoughts (BE)
BlackELk wrote:
Biblical fundamentalists emphasize the diviinity in holy writ to the point of excluding reasonable knowledge of its human origins and traditions. Liberal scripture scholars emphasize the human sources and limitations of the Bible at the expense of simply accepting its divine inspiration.

The Incarnate Word is both God and man--a true mystery of faith and a conundrum of scientific investigation! The Living Word is not a puzzle or problem to be solved by logical argumentation; it is an existential mystery to be experienced and embraced--a sheer act of the will to power.


Really?
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2006 10:14 am
Evanman: This is primarily a statement of faith. Unlike scholarly analysis of the texts, there no way to scientifically support most of my statement about the incarnate nature of the texts with evidence from archeology, history, or linguistics.

However, I probably could provide evidence to support my generalization about biblical fundamentalists if I wanted to take the time to make a logical argument along these lines. I am personally offended by the refusal to acknowledge and honor the human origins of biblical texts--and therefore, recognize the very human limitations of those texts, including their contradictions and inconsistences as though the divine inspiration somehow erased all trace of their humanity.
 
evanman
 
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 12:29 am
Quote:
I am personally offended by the refusal to acknowledge and honor the human origins of biblical texts--and therefore, recognize the very human limitations of those texts, including their contradictions and inconsistences as though the divine inspiration somehow erased all trace of their humanity.


I do not believe that the writers of the books and letters, songs, etc that make up the Bible were somehow all in a trance when they wrote down what they did.

We can see that these were written from by humans. The Greek scriptures were written in common Greek, not in the high-brow Greek of the scholars. I do believe that as the Holy Spirit inspired them He used them, warts and all, to write what they did, as they did.

This does not take away from Divine inspiration one bit.

Great care was taken by the Jews to preserve their writings so that every copy made was an identicle copy of the original. Every time an error was made (down to the smallest piece of punctuation) the whole piece of text was buried and the scribe would have to begin from the beginning of that particular page of text.

The biggest problem that we have is not with the ancient texts, the biggest problem we have is one of "Translation", and then of "Interpretation".

There will be endless debates, and interminable arguments over interpretation. There are those that take a literalist view, others that take a more liberalist view. Those that accept the Genesis Account as historical and those who see it as a fable, to be seen as an allegory.

There are those that denigh the existence of Angellic manifestations, miracles, the incarnation, virgin birth, and those that accept these things.

This is down to that scary word for so many--FAITH!

The New Testament authors were at pains to point out that they weren't making up anything. The Apostles stated that they were eye-witnesses. Luke, who authored two of the Books declared: "As a number of attempts have been made to put together in order an account of those events which took place among us, As they were handed down to us by those who saw them from the first and were preachers of the word, It seemed good to me, having made observation, with great care, of the direction of events in their order, to put the facts in writing for you, most noble Theophilus; So that you might have certain knowledge of those things about which you were given teaching."

When writing to the believers in Corinth concerning the fact of the ressurrection of Jesus Christ Paul stated: "And he was seen by Cephas; then by the twelve; Then by more than five hundred brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living..." Any one of them would have been able to travel to Jerusalem and speak to those eyewitnesses that were still alive.

John goes even further: "That which was from the first, which has come to our ears, and which we have seen with our eyes, looking on it and touching it with our hands, about the Word of life (And the life was made clear to us, and we have seen it and are witnessing to it and giving you word of that eternal life which was with the Father and was seen by us); That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."

Here John is stating that not only were they eyewitnesses, but that they actually touched Jesus. It is this same John who we read about at the last seder that is recorded as reclining on Jesus' chest! This same John who witnessed Jesus' death, burial, ressurrection and even Ascension. This John that wrote down his visions whilst in exile on the isle of Patmos, who some even dare to accuse as being suffering from dementia!

I have complete faith in what is written in the Bible!
 
Day 1
 
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 08:58 am
Countless religions, denominations and sects the world over, each promote their particular perspectives on, and applications of faith, both literal and figurative. In reference to matters of conscience, Paul admonished believers in Rome that "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves."
 
evanman
 
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2006 04:01 pm
I am not sure as to the particular quote you are referring to, but if I'm not mistaken, he was speaking with regard to food. When they went to buy meat in rome it was sold at a meat market called the "Shambles", here all the meat was sacrifice to idols and a number of the believers had problems with eating this meat. Paul was trying to tell them that meat sacrificed to idols is sanctified by prayer and, as idols are nothing more than lumps of stone and wood, they should not get under a cloud about it.

Nevertheless people whose conscience won't permit them to eat such meat should be respected.
 
Day 1
 
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 01:10 pm
The gist of the chapter (Ro. 14) seems to be that however christians choose to believe and exercise their faith, all believers are accepted by God, and their religious differences have little bearing on the reality of His acceptance.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 03:01 pm
Not quite.

Paul is referring to minor differences over none essentials.

There are other places where believers are instructed to divide!
Quote:
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Quote:
1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
 
Day 1
 
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 04:56 pm
The defining words in my previous posting were "christian" and "believer." Paul was writing to Roman "brethren" (Ro. 14). The 1 Cor. 5:11 reference specifies "...any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous..." His actions refute his claim to christian kinship, as the following verses (1 Cor. 5:12-13) clearly explain.

"Minor differences over non essentials" Hmmm. Paul emphasized to his readers in this chapter to "not pass judgement,...regard with contempt,...put a stumbling block in a brother's way" or "tear down the work of God" over these "minor differences." He also suggested to the brethren to "pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another."
 
Acheick
 
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 04:23 pm
With all this intellegentsia interlopping going on, I thought I'd offer my 2 cents. I found this quote just now on a website I thought fit my feelings to a tee:

"The fact that it's possible to abuse religion does not mean it is without value. You don't see anybody arguing that we should give up sex simply because it makes people do stupid things..."

I do find a lot of value in Christianity, especially the pure form of it, without all the meddling that goes on in defiling the scriptures, a la David Berg, and others.
 
evanman
 
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2006 04:40 pm
Quote:
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.


The above list states things that are not MINOR.

Sexual Immorality, Greed, Idolatry, to scream and shout at others, drunkeness, extortion are major sins that would keep people out of God's kingdom.

Quote:
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.


Equating gain with godliness equates very much with the doctrines of the Word of Faith/Prosperity Movement. here we have a group of people selling us the line that material gain is what God wants everyone to enjoy.

This is covetousness which the scriptures define as akin to Idolatry.

Quote:
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:


Quote:
(1 Corinthians 6:9)
¶ Do ye not know that unrighteous [persons] shall not inherit [the] kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men,

(1 Corinthians 6:10)
nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor abusive persons, nor [the] rapacious, shall inherit [the] kingdom of God.
 
Anonymous
 
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 08:36 pm
You all are intent on discussing the Bible. I think you all should take a look into some other texts and see how they correlate. See how they agree. Then you can more easily see falsehood.

When you step outside the school house and take a peek into some other schools, you will generally see the same thing.

Dark schools teach dark things. Light schools teach light things.

I hope that made sense to someone.

I have read some Quran, and Tao, and even some Hindu writings. Most point to the same thing.

One thing we can see about the Torah is that the Jews followed it and it made them powerful. When they disobeyed the law, they became losers. I think that this history is one of the most powerful testimonies in the Bible. The same goes for other religious texts.

One day you may leave the school house and find out for yourself. My life as a test tube is probably one of the best methods to gain knowledge. However, I must be completely honest with myself.

I once read somewhere that cultism is taking one verse and using that along not with the entire passage.

Here is a typical F one. "Thou he slay me yet will I trust in him..." Does anyone know what the rest of the verse says?

They use it way out of context.[/list]
 
evanman
 
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2006 05:38 am
Quote:
Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.
 
renee 2
 
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2017 01:04 pm
Hi. This website was a hugely helpful website for my spouse and myself and we read through every bit of it after leaving in 2010.
I've been trying to get in touch with the author, Chris, but don't know anything besides his first name.
It's been offline for awhile now but I saved a copy offline and I'd like to find a way to give a copy to my family.
Does anyone know who 'Chris' is and whether he's still around?
Thanks
 
 

 
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